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Buffy Mondays! Season 5 Episode 14 First Time Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-05 18:20:16
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e9kHxSS7Boc2vnw7KLFhfU4j7kINRF5t/view?usp=sharing

####### EPISODE SPOILER REVIEW BELOW! APPARENTLY SOME OF YOU ARE WATCHING FOR THE FIRST TIME ALONG SIDE ME, SO PLEASE DON'T READ BEYOND THIS POINT UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EPISODE YOURSELF! ######

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Buffy at the end of this episode -

Oh Spike... oh Spike... XD

This was great! It really looked into what love is and isn't (the latter being my opinion of what Spike is up to XD ).

WONDERFUL seeing Dru back in Sunnydale, even if it were just for one week! I have been questioning if her and Darla would get in contact, and here she is! :D

Some great comedy moments here! I can't believe Spike blamed Buffy & Dru for all this! XD

Harmony as Buffy was perfection. XD

Hope you guys are having a great weekend!

As always, if you click the video just after this post, you may need to  download it first.  This should be fixed in a couple of hours!

Comments

L F

Just to let you know I have Angel episode 14 not Buffy :)

VeggieGamer

SORRY GUYS!! Put the wrong Link in! I'll update this ASAP!

VeggieGamer

Fixed the link! The video is currently processing, so may take a little longer. But at least now you have the correct episode (and show)!

Lime Pie

I think Spike knocked over the cup so that he could steal Xander's money. I live in California and the mode of transport that people use here is actually quite diverse. You can be in one town with bikes everywhere and the next town over has next to none. Trains are not typically used a lot, but I personally used them a lot when I was going to college. A soul and a chip have similarities, but I disagree with Dawn that they are the same thing. A soul makes you feel bad in the form of guilt for doing something wrong. A chip makes you feel bad in the form of a shock for trying to physically hurt a human. Both act as a deterrent by punishing the vampire for doing bad things, but a chip only considers physically harming a human as a bad thing. Spike can't see that he is in the wrong because the chip doesn't punish him for stalking Buffy and threatening to kill her.

VeggieGamer
>>145712040

AAH! The knocking the bottle over to steal the tip is inspired! XD Thanks for clarifying, I think you are right!

Audra Foxgrove

Hey Veggie! Great reaction as always. I just wanted to let you know (and see if anyone else had the same issue) that here was some strange lagging with this vid that I don’t normally see from your stuff. I did try the in-page video, the Google link, and downloading the video and watching it off-line. The issue I was seeing was lag in the video of you, but no lag in the screen recording. Don’t know if I’m the only one seeing it and it’s just an issue with the file I got or my connection somehow, but if others are having the same issue, then maybe we can try and figure out why and help you with fixing it?

VeggieGamer
>>145724198

Hi Audra. Apparently it is with my recording. So sadly there is no fix. I will have to try and get a new camera as I have no idea why this happened. This really sucks and I am sorry it messed up the reaction.

RavenLord

They did cover Dawn's comments on Giles in the beginning as she was riding in the new red car, I think was the scene. I may not remember the exact phrasing, but it was something like, "I don't think Buffy's watcher like me very much. I think it's because he's so....old. I don't know how old exactly, but I heard him use the word 'newfangled' one time, so he must be pretty far gone."

VeggieGamer

Hi guys. Apparently the footage got screwed up in this reaction. There is nothing I can really do apart from apologise. I wish there was a way I could fix things, but there is sadly nothing I can do. I will try and avoid this in future, this is hell.

Ashley Evers

I think your take on Spike is pretty spot on. Based on what we’ve seen in the show, I think that Spike not having a soul essentially means that he can’t feel empathy in the same way or understand right from wrong in the same way that someone with a human soul can. We can see in his relationship with Drusilla, as well as in the relationship between Darla and Angelus, they feel something for each other, but it is essentially selfish. Even Angel says that he couldn't love Darla when he didn't have a soul. It’s obsession and infatuation, and in Spike’s case codependency, which to be fair many humans mistake for love, but it isn’t. Spike loves Buffy by vampire standards, but without a soul he can never come close to offering her the kind of love that is healthy. He can try to learn how she wants him to act, but underneath it all, it won’t be because he agrees about what is right and what is wrong. After all, if he had offered to kill Buffy to prove his love for Drusilla, Drusilla would have loved that. (Btw, he was threatening to let Dru kill Buffy if Buffy didn’t say he had a chance. If she did, then he would kill Dru. So, worse than what you said at the end. He doesn’t go through with it, but still). The reason that it can be confusing with Spike is that he is a romantic. He was a romantic before he died, and he still is. He mythologized his relationship with Dru, talking about how amazing and unending their love was. Now that he’s ‘in love’ with Buffy, he’s doing the same thing, it has to be epic, unconquerable love, cause that’s how he sees himself. He’s willing to reinvent himself as a ‘good guy’, because he thinks he would ‘do anything for love’. But as soon as it doesn’t go the way he wants, you see that it is still essentially selfish. Don’t worry about gushing about Dru. She is an awesome character, and it is really fun learning more of her history in these seasons of Buffy and Angel. I totally understand about getting in your own head about something and needing a place to just get it out. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m glad you feel safe doing that here. This comment is getting really long, but one more important thing. I really hope that you have someone else who would tell you this, but I just want to be really sure you know, and I have something I want to say about it. The episode of Buffy that you have already seen is coming up in a couple episodes. Normally I would never dream of spoiling something like that, but in this circumstance, I just can’t handle taking the risk of you being blindsided by it. And I really, really need you to know that you do not need to watch it again for us. You’ve seen it before, you know what happens, I’m sure anyone here would be happy to fill you in on any smaller plot points that you might not remember from that first viewing. If you want to watch it for you, because you think it would be good for you, then we’ll be here with you. But no one with a soul would want you to put yourself through that just for our entertainment. Please take care of yourself.

esme

xander being REALLY into the fact that dawn has a crush on him is extremely off putting to me lol i don't think spike was playing possum the whole time. i think the drinking of the blood was genuine and it was in between that and him and dru plotting to kill buffy that he decided to go with his own wacked out plan. (and i can only assume in spike's mind this was when he "chose" buffy as some big romantic gesture) i really don't agree that a chip and a soul are the same. spike may be conforming but as we see in this episode, when given the opportunity, he's still the same demon inside. he will still make the evil choice. and when he doesn't make the evil choice (like choosing to save buffy) it's completely selfish. like how you'd freak out and try to save your phone if it ended up in water. a soul is different. an entirely new person is in this body and this entirely new person is the one calling the shots. the chip is literally just a muzzle. i LOVE dawn, but i think she's just using gotchas that dissolve the second you look deeper into them. like a kid would, so this doesn't annoy me or anything. and i'm glad she voices this opinion because it opens up interesting discussions despite my completely disagreeing with it. just so you know, the fandom loves dru as much as you do! she's VERY popular.

Giorgia M

I love the scene where Tara is discussing the Hunchback of Notre Dame with Willow and Buffy and is essentially describing Spike. How Tara points out that all of Quasimodo’s actions were selfishly motivated by his love for a woman who could never love him back. I love it !!! Find it deeply interesting that Willow ignores these selfish actions and just wants to see a happy, romantic ending. I think it says a lot about the differences between their characters. I will add that I do think Spike has feelings, sadness, regret, pain, joy, just not in the same human way. I in no way think what he’s doing here is okay. The things he’s doing and saying are making me a bit ill actually despite loving his character. Regarding love, I think it’s hard to love without a soul. At least, true, pure love. Selfless love. What he had with Dru seems more similar to love than this with Buffy, which is infatuation. But love is hard to quantify anyway. I mean, humans can love in a selfish way too and having a soul doesn’t make you a good person either. I’m losing my point here but when you mostly think about yourself and operate out of baser urges and desires like soulless Spike does, it’s hard to really love someone in a healthy way. Like he knows right and wrong for the most part but it’s hard for him to feel the same level of empathy or compassion or understanding of the extreme actions he’s taking, despite having emotional intelligence. I think he has the leftover urges from human Spike in his romantic notions and emotional complexity which we’ve not seen a lot of soulless vamps have but the actions are all confused and misplaced as if he doesn’t quite remember the lines for the part he used to play. I just find his character endlessly interesting. I also love what Spike said about Dru in this episode being the face of his salvation, he fell “in love” with this demon, found something to believe in, to be good at and he views it all as this epic love. His view of love, power and happiness is all tied up in the type of man Druscilla wanted him to be which was a killer. I don’t think Spike really knows who he is outside of that, he really is a fool for love. It was the perfect descriptor of him.

Audra Foxgrove
>>145724198

Hey, don’t feel bad, stuff happens! I mostly wanted to start a thread so we could see if anyone has suggestions for you. I’m sure there’s some kind of troubleshooting to check what’s up with your camera, I just don’t have the knowledge personally.

Giorgia M

Also, I loved your rant! Get it off your chest. I actually completely agree with everything you said anyway. There’s nothing wrong with trying to make everyone feel included, trying to understand everyone’s side of things and I think it’s one of the things I love most about you and your videos. Do you know how many people are closed minded, stubborn and unkind about their opinions? Like it’s rare to find someone who strives to always be open and ready to listen and learn more. There’s no malice in it, you have a kind heart and are actively trying to put yourself in other people’s shoes and make sure to never be rude. I appreciate it, even if some people don’t deserve it. P.s. I started experiencing some issues part way through but it didn’t spoil the reaction, it would just lag a little even now and then. Don’t worry!!

Will Sofer
>>145724918

No worries. Shit happens, as they say. There’s always going to be a few reactions that are plagued with technical issues. If I may make a tech-related suggestion, though? Maybe turn down the gain on your mic a bit, or move the mic away from you a bit, if you’re going to be yelling? Not gonna lie, it’s honestly a bit jarring, and a few episodes ago, literally blew out my cheap little Bluetooth speaker (fixed itself though, no worries). I don’t want you to censor yourself during your reactions, even as far as volume, but I think just making a few small adjustments in the recording could help.

Amanda S
>>145724918

Yes, at first I thought it was my computer freezing up until I noticed the episode footage kept going, while your image wasn't moving lol... Fortunately the sound didn't seem affected, so even when the video of you was stuck in place, we could still appreciate your voice reactions to follow along :)

Alicia Patron

I think you are totally right about Spike in this episode! Spike (and all vampires in the Buffy-verse) is sort of like a person with ASPD and so his version of love is extremely self-serving. Is he capable of infatuation and devotion? To some extent, yes, because he was prone to those when he was human, but as a vampire, his infatuation becomes obsession and his devotion becomes dependence / co-dependence. He is stuck in a behavior modification attempt with some physical consequences but has not been given any actual therapy. He has no capacity for understanding WHY his behavior needs to be changed and therefore can't apply actual good behavior in his daily existence. It is not the same as having a "soul", which is a stand-in in the Buffy-verse for a conscience and a capacity to empathize with others. He has a lot of work to do on himself before he can actually understand love. We don't even know if a vampire is capable of benefiting from therapy or if it would still be a lost cause at the end of the day. At this point he just wants what he wants without having to do anything really unselfish to earn it. Basically, it's the Quasimodo discussion Tara and Willow were having at the beginning of the episode. Trains are used all over the USA but nowhere near the extent that they are in the UK / Europe. The closest we get to that is the Northeast corridor from Boston to Washington DC -- trains are used pretty frequently in that part of the country and that's largely because the cities people are traveling between on that line (Boston / NYC / Philadelphia / DC) also have large public transportation infrastructures that don't really require you to have a car if you are staying in the city centers.

Mo

I tend to skip/forget this episode so I also forget just how insane Spike is in it. I definitely agree with your take. Dawn suggesting that the chip and a soul are the same is revealing of her naivete and projecting goodness as with her crush. I think her not actually having been around (ie, who knows what memories the monks implanted) when he was terrorizing the Scoobies and Sunnydale is relevant to that, it's hard to think that Spike who teamed up with Adam, who tried to get chip-less again just 10 episodes ago would be seen as someone with ethics and morals rather than a muzzle!

Jake M

Interesting how Sunnydale has gone from a "one club" town in season one to n a town with at least two high schools, a university, and now ow having a train station with Sunnydale as the last stop,.it's like Springfield, ever growing and ever shifting XD

Jake M
>>145724918

Hi Veggie - there was a similar problem in the book club prior to the most recent one. Not sure what editing software you use, but I used to have similar issues whenever I processed a video in Vegas or Adobe After Effects with low hard drive space, or when a lot more CPU was being used than it could handle. Dunno if that applies to you at all though! It may be something as silly as the hotter weather making the CPU burn hotter and the fans not cool as much as usual.

Jake M
>>145730808

I never picked up on that hunchback comparison...d'oh!

Audra Foxgrove
>>145730808

Yeah, love the Hunchback of ND dialog as well! In the episode when Spike is intent on making romantic overtures towards Buffy, Tara says right in front of her “it can’t end [good]… everything [he] did was selfishly motivated… [he] did out of love for a woman who could never love him back… plus, you can tell it’s not gonna have a happy ending when the main guy’s all bumpy [like vamp face?]” It’s honestly one of my favorite of the times the show does a little “aren’t I clever” about itself. Something about how it manages to be subtle enough to completely not notice while also being so incredibly on the nose— I just love that.

Hanneli Norrgard

I can see both sides in the whole Buffy/Spike thing. She can be a total douche all she wants, uninvite him, tell him to leave town, etc, but she's also the one who takes her family to him in order to protect them. She can't have it both ways. He's a demon, and will always be a demon, but that doesn't mean he can't change. One would think that after so long of not being able to do vampire type things, said vampire can actually have huge changes in who they are. Trains are complicated. One of the huge reasons they're not so big is the size of the country. It may seem logical to some that the size would make trains more popular, but with a country this big, airplanes make more sense to many. Even in a state like CA, with public buy-in, for huge train projects, they still won't get built. Why? Money. At least here, the government (that claims it wants trains) will put huge impediments to the progress because that government here impedes everything, we have ridiculous topography that makes building super expensive, we have earthquakes (received an earthquake alert on my phone actually while watching this reaction) which make building way more expensive than other places, high land value which makes buying land for the project expensive, high wages, powerful unions, the California Coastal Commission, etc. It just doesn't work. A private company is supposed to building a high speed train from about an hour outside of LA to Vegas (a very very very well traveled route), and a few months ago told people how much tickets are likely going to cost. It costs more than flying, takes more time than flying, and is more of a hassle than flying due to where it's located. So, people are likely to either drive to save money or fly still. Real life Sunnydale is on a very popular train route, but it isn't the end of the line. Seats might have had different setups back then, but that line now has mostly rows of two seats, an aisle, and two more seats, There are a few four seater groups (for families) in ear car, and business class has seats on the bottom that are in groups of two (one facing another one). Those seats are reserved for older adults and those with disabilities.

Goblin

I find the talk about trains really interesting ! I often wish we had the sort of trains that England has here in Canada. I can't speak for america, but I feel like the sort we have here are almost purely relics of the past. (And often thought of as a quirky scenic option for rich tourists or grandparents who don't "get" flying.) I think a large part of it is tied into driving culture here. Having your own vehicle is really such a massive thing. Obviously we still have public transport, but it's generally quite expensive in comparison, and I know in particular that a lot of the old railroads get closed off entirely as they fall into disrepair and no one can justify paying to fix em back up. Suppose it makes sense that it'd be cheaper to have a bus route out into the middle of nowhere (that's what makes up about 80% of canada, it feels) instead of having to do constant upkeep on the rails and trains. (especially accounting for all the winter months!) Buses have also always ran a LOT more frequently (once or twice a day, compared to 1-2 times a week for trains, at least out in the country where I am), which I believe is why you're way more likely to see someone hopping on a greyhound in movies. Anyway, I also wanted to comment on the Spike stuff - I do feel bad for him, he is definitely deeply confused (as you said). He goes about everything in this episode in a very twisted way (which I truly believe is all he's known- look at his backstory episode, and his attempts at fixing his relationship with Drusilla) BUT I also have to consider how much we've been shown about his capacity to feel AND care- something that we have been told again and again is something vampires are absolutely and completely incapable of doing. Spike has always been a sort of anomaly in that way, I think. And it brings up a lot of very important questions regarding the whole concept of a soul and what it brings to a person. I don't agree that the chip is on par in any way with a soul though. It's certainly helping to show us a different side of him, but I believe Spike has a capacity for emotions, empathy, etc that doesn't reflect anything we've been told about the no soul-having characters. (Especially that one episode of Angel with the soulless child who was possessed!) For instance, do you think Angellus would ever reach a point where he'd actively take care of Buffy's family when she's in trouble, if he were the one with the chip? I feel like the chip is holding certain parts of Spike back, but what we're left with is still profoundly different from what we'd get with a chipped Angellus and it always has been like that, in my opinion. It's a very complicated situation, with a very complex character. I'm delighted to see what you think of him, and I look forward to the rest of your reactions. :o)

Flufux
>>145724918

No worries, could have been way worse. It only happened here and there, and we could still hear your reactions well enough, and to be fair, I've seen plenty of reaction videos from other reactors without video footage at all.

Hanneli Norrgard

I did also want to say that I don't like the whole she was with Angel so she's a hypocrite thing. Why? That was an inappropriate relationship between an adult and a child. (I believe it would be legal in England since she was 16, but it most certainly would be illegal in California). She was a different person who didn't have an adult brain and was groomed. She didn't have other adults in her life telling her that she shouldn't be in a relationship with an adult, so she didn't know any better.

Shiby23

In America there's so much space for roads we don't need trains for mass travel unless its tightly packed cities like New York with subways. My dad and I would take the train to Seahawks games every sunday because it was cheaper than driving 20 miles and paying 60$ for parking, those trains had 500+ people so trains are used just not in your typical daily travel routes.

Tommy Ross
>>145931485

I fully agree. And let's not forget that Angel started following and watching Buffy when she was 15. The Angel/Buffy relationship is not the perfect romance they seemed to think they were selling.

Tommy Ross

While Spike's behavior in this episode is reprehensible... he absolutely knows what feelings are. See season 3 episode 8 where he fully reads Buffy and Angel. "I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it," etc., etc., etc...