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Buffy Fridays! Season 3 Episode 18 First Time Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-01 14:13:09
Imported:
2026-06
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Hi guys! Just a quick Trigger Warning, this episode contains the topics of suicide and school shootings.  I know the vast majority of you have already seen this, but just wanted to warn anyone that may not be expecting it.

In addition - my initial opinions of the ending have changed somewhat in the 24 hours since I recorded it.  At the time, I liked the way the ending was handled, but now am not so sure.  We will discuss it at the start of next week's video! :)  I still really enjoyed this episode!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xWv0fZFnuasbu3MEZRPPof0wAdtyrsjF/view?usp=sharing

####### EPISODE SPOILER REVIEW BELOW! APPARENTLY SOME OF YOU ARE WATCHING FOR THE FIRST TIME ALONG SIDE ME, SO PLEASE DON'T READ BEYOND THIS POINT UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EPISODE YOURSELF! ######

------

Hi guys!  REALLY loved the concept of this one!  I was just like Buffy, and really excited about the prospect of her new 'ability' (apart from when Xander is around).  This episode definitely gives you a 'be careful what you wish for' vibe!

I hope my warning above wasn't too dramatic. XD But yeah, after a day of thinking about the ending, I am not sure I like how it was handled particularly (or it could have been done from a more sympathetic standpoint at least).  I would love to read your thoughts on it though, as well as the usual reviews of the episodes!  I definitely enjoyed it, but I admit the ending has been kind of playing on my mind a little. XD 

Hope you guys are having a great weekend!

As always, if you click the video just after this post, you may need to  download it first.  This should be fixed in a couple of hours!

Comments

VeggieGamer

Hi guys! My opinion in the last 24 hours has kind of changed regarding an aspect of the ending to this episode. Don't worry, I still really enjoyed it! Next week in the intro I'll explain that I think part of it could have been handled slightly differently. But it was still a great episode! :)

Tim Pierce

Legendary episode that originally didn't air at date, because of the timing of the episode. Columbine (shooting at a school in the US) had JUST happened. Kinda eerie the comments that are made.

Jake M

Buffy Vampire Sia? Never heard of it, sounds good though. Do the vampires have elastic hearts? An - jel - uss. I definitely think he was talking about himself as the best actor. He does praise himself quite often. BTW, title says Sunday...confused me greatly XD

x_Rhi_x

About Angel series. I do really like it, but prefer Buffy. But I think your reactions to it would be really fun to watch haha. If you are able to do 2 eps a week when you get to Angel, that'd be amazing, so then we wouldn't have to wait like 3 weeks for a Buffy :)

Shiby23

So, as far as watching Angel goes, i think you should hold off on it. Don't get burnt out double dipping the universe. The key point i've got tho is that you've had all 6 lord of the rings, all 8 harry potter + 3 fanastic beasts. Perhaps try knowing everything and then going back to the Angel tv show.

Sam-I-Am

I’m not sure how popular or unpopular of an opinion this is, but I much prefer the tv show Angel to Buffy. When I was watching the shows, I followed the suggested watch order and found it to be very helpful (especially for the first season). I personally wouldn’t suggest waiting to watch Angel until after Buffy…watching the two together gives you some much needed context for some episodes. But adding a whole new series to review is a lot and probably incredibly overwhelming, so I will be happy with whatever pace you want to take it at! :)

Jake M

Technically, there WAS a series called Willow...but it's completely unrelated, with Warwick Davis XD

JosieMorita
>>116551922

The episode was supposed to air the week after the Columbine shooting. Instead it aired a few month later, right before Season 4.

JosieMorita

I brought up the discussion about Angel. I personally don't watch it but I know other people love it. I would prefer the original order (as they were aired) with one episode of each per week. As for the SlayAlive Watch Guide, there are two versions, one for home use and one for YouTubers. I assume the home use one is for binge watching, where it makes sense to do it that way. See for yourself. Spoiler Alert for episode titles: http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/3924-The-Buffy-Angel-watching-guide

Zoo
>>116567314

Love Angel almost as much as Buffy. Most reactors follow the guide, but personally since I've watched lots of Buffyverse reactions for years, I'd very much welcome a different approach so I concur with doing it the original way with one of each per week (or round). I watched most of Angel after Buffy was finished myself and I remember being so hyped about watching them according to a guide on one of my earlier rewatches but it didn't add anything to the experience at all for me so never bothered again.

SapientButterfly

An episode that always really sticks out in my memory. A great one, but boy some heavy subject matter. As far as Angel goes, I really enjoyed Angel and will definitely check out your reactions to the series, there are a number of crossover moments where it helps to be watching them alongside each other. But ultimately you've got to do what works best for you. I'm happy watching whatever is posted 😊

JenM

As an American, a 'jumper' is a specific item of women's clothing. A one piece shirt/shorts or shirt/pants combo. What you call a 'jumper' is what we call 'sweater' for both men and women :)

VeggieGamer
>>116576187

Wow, really Jen? that is very interesting! I have to admit, it is rare I hear Americans even use that term! Thanks for the info!

RavenLord
>>116565030

The original movie Willow was a lot better, IMO. I would love to see you watch that sometime, Veggie. I think it's a fantasy adventure that would be your style. But yeah, no relation to Buffy's Willow, lol.

Frederique Gillespie

The broadcast of this episode was postponed originally. It was first scheduled to air a week after the Columbine High School massacre occured. It was obviously the only decision to make at the time, even if the episode doesn't end up being about a school shooting at all. I can't speak for the climate in the United States, but events at Columbine really struck a nerve where I grew up... not very far from the border with Vermont. Anyway, I appreciate that there are moments of levity in this episode. That this the show's singular gift: mixing horror with humour. Suicide isn't a light topic, nor should anyone attempt to minimize what Jonathan was going through... but as someone who was in a similar headspace in high school, I really appreciated the wake-up call Buffy gave him. Now, if others think she was harsh with him, I respect that. But it's true: none of us is a mind reader and most of us don't broadcast our inner turmoil. So we are unaware of each other's suffering. Thank goodness it's not all suffering. :) And there are so many awesome quotes in this episode: "You had sex with Giles!?!?!? On the hood of a police car!?!?!?! TWICE!!!!!" Angel saying he's a funny guy. Wesley calling himself a bad, bad man for looking at Cordelia. Oz's reaction to Freddy's review of Dingoes Ate My Baby. Cordelia's growing frustration at the lack of recognition the cheerleaders get. But the one I still use once in a while is Buffy: "My life happens to, on occasion, suck beyong the telling of it." Also, as a Freddie, I would like to lodge a formal complaint. We are pompous and a bit depressive, but at least we have some sense of humour!!! #FredWeasleyForever #FreddieMercuryWasAnIcon

tvshrine

You don't need to watch Angel. I only remember like one time where there was any crossover and I can't even remember what it was about. I didn't watch Angel until after Buffy and it was fine. I never felt I missed out on anything. Angel was never one of my favorite characters though. I thought that show was kind of flat.

Thom Purdy

I would recommend the Slay Alive order, as it is better for internal story lines, but Broadcast order would work as well.

Michael Begmann

Wuhu. I finally managed to catch up Personally I have a bit of a hard time with this episode, and I can’t quite put my finger on why. It might be because of the heavy subject matter of suicide, and that I feel it is dealt with rather easily. I know it is a tv-show and they don’t have ages to go into every subject, but I feel like if you are going into something as dark as suicide, you need to do more than “Surprise suicide and Quick talk down” For me it just feels too easy, and it leaves a hollow taste. But I still love the comedy of the episode, it has so many good moments that are stuck in my head. And it always reminds me of those friends that has the perfect mix of Cordial brain and Xander brain, those people with zero filter and a dirty mind. Those are great friends to have, even though you are worried each time you introduce them to somebody new. On the subject of Angel I would love for you to watch and react to it. I personally am a much bigger fan of Angel than I am of Buffy and have been looking forward to you getting to it. I still like Buffy a hold lot but there is just something about Angel that tickles me the right way, it might have something to do with the fact that I watch the entirety of Angel before I ever circled back to Buffy, or it might be because when I first watched it I was still angsty Teenage boy that thought being a tortured, dark vampire might help me be cool. I really hope you are going to do Angel, but I have never edited or made any kind of online video, so I have no idea how much work it entails, I just hope you do what feels right for you. Looking forward to the next videos and in general love your work. Love from Denmark

tvshrine

There is a homecoming dance every year for everyone and that happens early in the fall. Prom is usually just for juniors and seniors and happens near the end of the year, it is formal attire.

RavenLord

Finally the Giles/Joyce reveal, where it is confirmed what we suspected in Band Candy! It's why at the end of that episode they were so awkward with each other. Yes, Xander inadvertently got it right with his flippant remark about the lunch lady. (We usually call them lunch lady in America instead of canteen lady or tea lady, which I think (?) they use as a term in British government, if I recall correctly from watching Yes, Minister/Prime Minister.) Much like your off-hand predictions that sometimes end up true, Xander nailed it. I would never want to look into people's minds! Even the kindest, gentlest person in the world will have dark thoughts, intrusive thoughts, raunchy thoughts. It's just how we humans are. Even if we don't *really* believe what our thoughts are telling us, there will still be the weird, dark ones that come. Well, except for those who don't have an inner monologue, which I couldn't even imagine; my brain-voice is never still. It also would feel like such a violation to have someone look into your mind, even if they didn't mean to do it. INFLUENCER: If someone calls themselves an influencer, I immediately distrust them and form an unfavorable opinion. I don't believe a word they say; they're often bought & paid for by some product or other, or they fancy themselves somehow superior. Snake oil salesman is a good descriptor. I equate "influencer" with a motivational speaker and/or a person in a pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme. MULLIGAN: Mulligan stew is sometimes referred to with the un-PC term of "hobo stew." From what I recall, it's a communal stew made with various foods, whatever each person brings to it. Mulligan, I think, was a term for an Irishman, and it probably originated with the large influx of Irish immigrants into America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. ANGEL: It's a darker series with a different feel to it than Buffy. It's not to everyone's taste. I like it, though I do prefer Buffy, but the series has some fantastic episodes. I think you might enjoy it. The difficulty here, of course, is whether you are willing or able to take on the chore of watching and editing two 45-minutes show each week. By watch order, Angel would start after the end of THIS season of Buffy. It would start as BUFFY S. 4, E. 1 and then ANGEL S1, E. 1. Watching Angel after the conclusion of Buffy is going to leave a few holes in both shows, as there are several crossovers. It's possible to keep enjoying Buffy and not bother with Angel, though there will be times when you will wonder what the HECK just happened on Angel that made some specific incident happen on Buffy. On a similar vein, are you going to do two-parter Buffy episodes as a single upload, two separate episodes the same day, or two separate episodes an entire week apart? I ask because a two-parter is coming up. The finale of Season 3 is a two-parter. You have two regular episodes, and then Part 1 of the finale, which will be a "to be continued" episode. Just curious. :)

Giorgia M

7/10. Okay so I also really enjoy this episode and find it extremely memorable. I do feel the issue of suicide was handled poorly, I don’t feel Buffy was overly harsh to Jonathan because she didn’t yet know the extent of what he was gonna do. I don’t like the joke at his expense at the end. I would’ve liked a scene between Jonathan with Buffy or the gang after because a passing conversation does not highlight the issue well enough. Just like domestic abuse etc in other episodes, Buffy writers seem to be a little callous about vulnerable people and it rubs me up the wrong way how little time they gave the heavy issues, but I do feel that the message Buffy delivers is still meaningful enough to carry the episode, along with the usual hijinks. On a lighter note, one thing that always makes me laugh is the title of one of Freddy’s article, “Apathy on the rise, no one cares” it’s just funny to me idk!! With the format of, “A man found dead, a community left shaken” etc but no one cares because apathy is on the rise…. Okay I’ll let myself out lol. As for Angel, I watched the first few episodes, as well as a few key ones and I wasn’t too interested by it. I don’t enjoy Angel as a character much, I find him pretty boring. I also do not enjoy the acting of David Boreanaz. I’m sure I would like it if I stuck through it, especially the other characters in the show that seem more interesting, but with my brain, if I'm not enjoying something I can’t sit through it. I barely watch things I do enjoy!! I’ve found that in my experience, it’s mostly men that prefer Angel (generalisation here from personal experience so not a fact!!) but a lot of guys I’ve seen connect more with Angel the show, possibly due to the male perspective/lead in Angel vs young woman in Buffy. But I think that’s part of what made Buffy different, original or interesting, it’s the heart of the show. She’s a young woman dealing with issues a young woman does BUT she’s also a strong, intelligent hero. A brooding heroic male lead, I might have seen that before! To quote Buffy, “All right, yes, date and shop and hang out and go to school and save the world from unspeakable demons. You know, I wanna do girlie stuff!” Then again, as a diehard BTVS fan, watching Angel is a requirement so I will have to get to it at some point. Maybe it’ll be easier to watch along with you!!!

RavenLord

As to this specific episode, I enjoy it pretty well, though I do think they wrapped up the suicide part too quickly and neatly. I like the twist with the lunch lady. I appreciate the glimpse into other people's minds. Especially knowing Oz's deep thoughts, and that Cordelia literally says what is on her mind, no filter. I think there could have been less levity with such dark themes of suicide, teenage depression, and mass murder, but for the era it was made, it was handled well enough. If it had been made today, I think it would have been a very different feel to it the episode. I do think the idea that Jonathan was literally putting together a high-powered rifle to kill himself was ridiculous. Yes, people do that sort of thing with rifles sometimes, but it's not a common method, and for a teenage boy, it didn't feel like something they would use. Especially one that would require assembly, giving him plenty of time to re-consider. I think the writers lazily used both the rifle and the fact that Jonathan was high up in a school clock tower to keep the ruse going that Jonathan was the would-be killer, and it doesn't feel authentic. That's my criticism of it.

Giorgia M
>>116595625

Agree with everything you said!!! The choice of weapon seems ridiculous in retrospect. And with the prevalence of these types of violent acts, if BTVS was airing today or even mass shootings were as common in the time preceding the episode as they are now, I don’t think they would have made the episode so lighthearted. It’s a shame, I feel they could have really elevated the episode by addressing suicide in a thoughtful, poignant way, that’s what prevents this episode from being truly great.

Giorgia M

Also!!! I forgot to say. Xander pulled a Veggie this episode by jokingly predicting the end of the episode!!!

Hanneli Norrgard

I prefer Angel to Buffy, but a lot of that might be because I don't like the Buffy character. It's a great reprieve from her. Cordelia is my favorite, and Freddy is second (purely because of what he said about cheerleading). With Jonathan, I always figured maybe that's the only gun had access to. Contrary to popular belief, Americans aren't all running around strapped with guns, and many people do not have them at all. Shows also never do a good job with school shootings. One that I saw had the shooter outside the school, get stopped and talked down by other teens, those teens help the person hide the guns and run away, and tell no one, and pretend nothing happen. And, it was shown to be a positive way to deal with it. What we call jumpers, you guys call pinafores. Pinafores here are a type of apron.

Amanda S

Just chiming in here to say I enjoy both Buffy and Angel as shows and will definitely be watching them both if you decide to do them. Angel to begin is sort of like Buffy early on, where it takes the show a little bit of time to really get the main story lines rolling and can be more episodic at the start but there's some very amazing plots and characters in both shows so I can't wait to watch them again with you :) How you watch them is up to you, and you can do them either by the watch order (which keeps plot arcs more intact) or you can do them how we watched them originally which was one of each every week, though there are certain episodes of each show that should be watched in order to keep the correct order of certain scenes.

Svetlana Grabar

I would love it if you watch Angel, it's a great show. It has some stronger episodes and some weaker ones, but it's fantastic overall. There's a few guides for view orders, which I recommend following rather than just alternating episodes.

Nyssa Rawther 🍉

Haven't watched the reaction yet but just wanted to chime in and say that I've watched both Buffy and Angel and while I finished the entirety of Angel, I've only ever seen it once. Buffy, on the other hand, is a show I've rewatched a thousand and one times. Much prefer Buffy to Angel.

Flora Smith

This is NOT directed at Veggie, but rather the posts he was referring to from last ep - Faith is not Joyce’s responsibility (and we don’t know her finances or if she could even afford to support another person), and she is certainly not Buffy’s responsibility - until Wesley showed up in Bad Girls, *GILES* was supposed to be acting as her watcher. He is solely responsible for her remaining alone at motel etc . Please stop blaming men’s follies on women, kthanxbye

Diego Zenhäusern

I find it very funny how different our initial opinions on Buffy being able to read minds was. I didn't even think for a second that she could use it to spy on the bad gusy but immediately assumed that only hurt and missery would come of it.🙈😅

Maggie

I hope you do Angel, and if you're worried about spending too much time on one show, forget the weird story arc order thing and just watch them in the order they were released, alternating 1 episode from each show. As for people who supposedly don't like Angel, I've never really heard that take before and it astounds me. I only watched Angel because I loved Buffy so much (I didn't even like Angel's character), and Angel became my favourite show of the two. And I know you'd love it! Now I've always wondered why on earth Jonathan would get a massive gun like that to shoot himself. Surely it would be a really awkward and difficult angle to get. Wouldn't you just get a handgun? Always bothered me. I do love that scene between him and Buffy.

x_Rhi_x

I forgot to say about watch order. my preference would be release date order. The problem with slayalive guide is that, because they keep the story arcs together, you end up with sections, particularly the end of seasons, where you'll get like 5 or 6 episodes of one show in a row. With schedule order, you won't miss anything or watch in wrong order, and you'll have a nice pace of 1 buffy and 1 angel each week

Garry (Not Jerry)

Maybe you should watch a couple of episodes to see if you even LiKE Angel (it’s quite different). But yeah I’m more of a buffy fan but quite happy to watch Angel as well. This episode is good. Quite cool how Buffy attempted to talk him down from a mass murder, but the speech actually worked at talking down a suicide as well. I remember well the total confusion I experienced when Jonathan said “I would never hurt anyone” Yes it’s dated, not handled too sensitively, I appreciate other peoples comments on that.

Hanneli Norrgard
>>116612337

Also, people do commit suicide with long guns. One guy did it on live TV after school when a bunch of kids were watching when I was an adolescent. Maybe that's why it doesn't seem at all odd to me.