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Mutiny2 + Thunder Bringer | Epic The Musical Unedited Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2024-07-05 17:23:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Comments

Kathrine0114

You…almost made a successful triangle XD Helios is the sun God, and is the father of Circe, and he has the holy herd. So veeery close, just wrong Goddess-God relationship. But great job, you were really close! Also, ehem. “The blood on your hadns is somethign you won’t lose, all you can choose is whose.” 👀

Chase Elmquist

The Sun god is not Apollo but Helios Also the menu music thing was more "This is going to be in Thunder Bringer should I make it menu music, for when people are getting seated"

Mager

So in no longer you: I see a song of past romance (sirens) I see the sacrifice of man (Scylla) I see portrayals of betrayal And a brothers final stand (Mutiny) I see you on the brink of death I see you draw your final breath (Thunder Bringer) ….. dang it those are some spoilers XD

Alcaria Swain

You found another motif!!!

Azure Maxwell

In Polyphemus, the cyclops tells Odysseus that in exchange for the gift of the wine, "[he] shall be the final man to die." :) As of Thunder Bringer, this "blessing" has come true! :)))

Anon E. Mouse
>>142802091

Yep. And Poseidon was also just trying to fulfill the deal Ody made with Polyphemus

Michelle Schaefer

I have not seen confirmation on if "the sun god" here refers to Apollo or Helios, but considering that Apollo... well spoilers, frankly, but Apollo could come up again in a later song, where the connection would make much more sense. Apollo is also a sun god

MildlyPerturbed

Circe has fingerprints all over this saga. She’s the one who made Scylla, and Helios (the sun god who the sacred cows belong to) is her father.

Michelle Schaefer

Suffering also emulates Zeus which no one seems to notice. When "Penelope" tells Odysseus of the Lair of Scylla

Mal
>>142803150

It’s a common misconception, but Helios indeed is the God of the Sun! He’s the one who drives the actual sun across the sky in a chariot, while Apollo is more the god of sunlight. It’s similar to how Selene is the actual personification of the moon, while Artemis is the “lunar goddess” because of her association with guiding hunters in the night. But if Apollo shows up then OOOO that would be rad, since Helios and Apollo are close so he probably wouldn’t like Ody very much

Alcaria Swain

You definitely split Mutiny the best way possible.

Ashes2Ash

In the actual Odyssey, The Island of the Sun God is Helios' island, not Apollo's. Both are Sun Gods, with Moon Goddess Sisters. Both have an island with holy cows on it. It's kinda silly how similar they are. I can see Jorge deciding to just. make it Apollo's island for simplicity, but technically it's Helios'!

Anon E. Mouse

Re: pride in Thunde Bringer, Zeus is embodying his role as God of Justice and Honor here. Eury dishonored Helios by slaughtering one of his sacred cows. Ody pridefully thought that they wouldn't have to repay that offense by running away. (Side note- I don't know how exactly he thought he was going to escape. The dude is the ruler of the heavens. Unless Ody slips back into The Underworld, there's literally no place he can run away to.)

MildlyPerturbed

I love how in Mutiny, the roles are reversed as Odysseus is now the one wary about making a god mad because he’s now faced the wrath of one, whereas Eurylochus is tried and has given up. In the Odyssey, Eurylochus basically says he’d rather die full and in battle (die a hero’s death), than die from starvation (which in Ancient Greece was an embarrassing death). At this point, he seems suicidal. I think Odysseus’s reaction surprised him, because at this point Eurylochus had given up, whereas Odysseus is still fighting for Penelope.

Aries Sanchez

The way I am very happy to see you just as defeated as I was finishing this saga. The experience was a blur for me. I just remember being confused, then excited, then mortified, then dreadfully horrified, then outright FLABBERGASTED, to finally just so defeated and exhausted with a headache and dehydrated from apparently crying in between that rollercoaster of emotions. Overall, I was screaming at the TV at Jorge's smug freaking face for torturing us so! Rewatching this, I need another nap and some ibuprofen. Thunder bringer is my current bop now and Luke is the real Zeus. That's all. 😩😭🤣🫠💀

Mal

It was a genius idea of Jorge to play the entire Epic track list thus far with the remastered & official arcs, because there’s SO MANY MOTIFS I NEVER NOTICED TILL NOW. I thought Mutiny was playing off Zeus’ part in the Troy saga but it ALSO makes sense associating it with Survive!!! These men have been through hell and back (literally and figuratively) just because they’re STARVED, so they make the worst decision ever simply because they just want to SURVIVE. Forget going home, they just want to eat and live at this point. OOOO JAY WHEN I GET YOU

Jonathan Fleischer

So I may be wrong here, but if I remember right, until mutiny, eurylochus only refers to Odysseus as sir or captain. Maybe because after the mutiny he isn't obligated to show Odysseus respect with titles for the sake of the crew, he feels like he can refer to Odysseus by name, hence ody

MJ

i love your reactions to everything. and now we have to wait

Jacob Gaboriault

He handed eurylocus the torch at first but eurylocus handed it to another man cause he figured out what oddy was trying to do

Jacob Minger

To be honest I thought where you cut mutiny does make sense because the second half of mutiny does lead into Thunder bringer

Ashes2Ash
>>142804212

I really hope we get Wisdom Saga soon, because It has quite a few of my favorite songs via the snippits (no spoilers here)! Honestly looking forward to all of the upcoming sagas

MildlyPerturbed

I think the “her” Zeus is referring to is Odysseus’s pride. Only Zeus can bring it down.

Jacob Minger

I love how much this musical uses leitmotif. It’s very Wagnerian ☺️

MildlyPerturbed

Why does Zeus keep making Odysseus choose between difficult choices 😭😭😭

Anon E. Mouse
>>142804901

Interesting point. I saw him dropping the honorific not as a loss of respect, but as them connecting as the brothers and life-long friends they've always been. Like, there was this necessary distance between them when Ody ascended the throne and became his king and then his leader in war, but the mutiny put them back on equal footing so to speak. That Eury doesn't just call Odysseus by his name, but a nickname speaks to me of sincere affection despite the betrayal. And that makes the whole thing more heartbreaking to me

Mager

I like the idea of Zeus singing of him basically having sex with pride to show Odysseus crew how F they are and how he will F them so hard

jayden_arsonew

theres a great couple of tiktoks talking specifically about zeus' lyrics for your next live :D

Laura Duarte

I don’t know if you know this yet but Jorge revealed the first four lines of what the chorus was saying in “No Longer You.” They are: “Siren song, Scylla throat, Mutiny, Lightning bolt!” The rest is still a mystery.

jayden_arsonew

congrats, this is the first time ive cried to thunder bringer :')

jayden_arsonew

yah youtube will hate you for splitting the song but y'know, thats just more incentive to join the patreon lmao

Jonathan Fleischer
>>142804901

I totally agree. They've always been close friends, but because of their positions and hierarchy eurylochus was forced to be professional and like respectful to the point where any compassion may have been lost, but now that he and the rest of the crew no longer views Odysseus as their leader, he doesn't have to be as professional and can be more compassionate again

Ryan Torres

Now that you're caught up, Jorge confirmed the first 4 parts of the chanting in No Longer you. Siren Song Scylla Throat Mutiny Lightning Bolt

Kristina Hambleton

Yeah, the 'her' is Pride. Specifically Odysseus's pride as King and Captain. And then he 'undresses her' - i.e. exposes Odysseus' selfishness. Also, it's Helios' Cattle

Breanna Marino

Jorge did such a good job with casting, but I really love the voice actor for Zeus. Luke’s voice just fits so well.

ariona leilani

watching the livestream live while on discord w two of my friends was very fun but the amount of times jay’s reactions made us lose our minds laughing bc he was SO hyped. i love how much he loves his art

draeonic 🪼

"even after a mutiny he still cares so much about his friends" nah he's literally saying "the teacher will punish us all for this and I don't wanna get detention"

lilghost

This Reactions was fantastic! So I became a Patreon for this Month because I could Not Wait for this Reaction to the thunder Saga. It was definitivly worth it!

AwarePlot

I think Helios is the sun god but the connection otherwise i think is correct

The Feywild
>>142807912

Technically, Helios is the TITAN of the sun, just as his sister, Selene, is the TITAN of the moon. Apollo is the GOD of the sun, just as his sister, Artemis, is the GODDESS of the moon. The cows do belong to Apollo, being the sun GOD's hard, and there are a few myths to do with Apollo having a herd of cattle, like the story where Hermes, very shortly after being born, steals them.

Katarina

Once again Zeus is making him choose.. first with the baby in the first song and now his crew at the end of this saga.

Marsh

My opinion on the horse and the infant, survive, and mutiny motifs is that the motif plays right be for a life altering decision to kill or not to kill ie; the infant, cyclops, the cows. Each decision potentially ruining or saving his crew and family.

Katarina

So the sun god is Helios. Apollo is the moon God.

William Watson
>>142815823

Artimis is the moon, Apollo took over for Helios, but yes these are Helios’ cows

Katarina
>>142815823

Yes you are correct. I knew it began with an A. Lol. Thank you for correcting me.

William Watson
>>142812736

Helios IS the sun god with the sacred cows, Apollo a god of flocks and herds (and many more things like most gods), protector of sheep and cow, later takes over as sun god. Neither of which have a connection to Calypso that I could find after sending maybe two minutes on a google search. So I could be wrong. I also keep seeing spoilers for Rick Riordans “Heroes Of Olympus” (I still don’t have the books yet😢)

AwarePlot
>>142812736

Another quick google shows in the odessy that calypso is the daughter of Helios

AwarePlot
>>142812736

Disregard Circe is apparently the daughter of Helios, this is why you dont stop your google on the AI overview section

William Watson
>>142805260

It’s just too fitting for Zeus to compare pride to a woman because of how easy both are for him to manipulate! Zeus is the wors-⚡️💀

William Watson
>>142805110

Ody didn’t hand out the torches, he had Eury do it, and I don’t think Eury realized the torches were drawing Scylas attention until after he handed off his torch. I don’t think he would purposely have someone else die to save himself, I think he would have thrown the torch away if he did figure it out sooner. I believe he handed off the torch so he could use both hands to ‘help’ some how. Or so the man he gave it to could see better, I really don’t think Eury knew it would kill him. Eury’s reaction to staring at the blood stained torch, then reaches for the last man still holding a torch, that’s when I think he realized what was happening.

Leo1235_812
>>142815823

Correction, both are sun gods. Helios is a titan, not a god. But yes, both are sun gods

Tone87
>>142801073

“Portrayal of betrayal” is when Eury realizes that Odysseus betrayed the crew and let them die intentionally. That was my thought. I happy that we both thought back to Tiresias’ message!

Leyna Deyemi

The thunder saga reaction HAS to be my favorite ever. Its so good

Danika Wolfbaine

I'm laughing at your reactions to Jorge's expressions because they are very similar to your expressions when showing Casper videos, knowing something major was about to happen! Also PUPPPPPYYY (I don't know if he is technically but so cute)

Jelly Bean

zeus' bit in "horse and infant" has also shown up in "suffering" when the siren tells ody where to go (i think????)

Kiharu Yui

This saga was really sad, but so damn good, love the reacts

Jason Ringhofer

Oh my gosh I said this when the Survive reaction was put up! The Motif from Horse and the Infant was in Survive I’m so glad you finally realized!

Tyler Tipton

The reference to Pride as a damsel and all that is a metaphysical description of Odysseus’ pride and how it got them where they are. The entire opening is Zeus hyper sexualizing, as he is known to do to many things, and it’s symbolic of how he is basically going to have is way with Odysseus through his pride - as he did with many women in Ancient Greece. Then when he talks about him being the thunder bringer he then overemphasizes his second half of his personality - the lord of justice.

Emilee Daniel

stole the comment from someone else i cant remember who posted it but

Emilee Daniel

this was someone elses comment and i cant rememmber their user name but "As others have said, Zeus is not referring to any goddess of pride, but to Odysseus' pride, specifically his pride as a king. A king is supposed to serve and protect his people. Sacrificing himself on their behalf is expected. But Zeus is here to undress Odysseus' pride, exposing to both his crew and to himself exactly who he has become. Someone willing to sacrifice all his bonds to obtain his desire. Odysseus is humbled here and forced to accept himself. Odysseus isn't afraid of dying. He's afraid of not seeing Penelope and Telemachus again. So his selfishness here can't be explained by cowardice. He's making a deliberate decision to become colder."

Ithiryn

Funfact, it was because of thunderbringer that I learned the word sublime has an alternate definition, that being to instantaneously vaporize a solid object.

Imara121

Ah Zeus. Only God who could turn a lesson on pride into a creepy non-consent metaphor. I love Luke Holt. But Zeus gives me the heebie jeebies. Man needs to stop "undressing damsels in distress" and go spend some time with his wife!

Aimee Burrill

Rewatching the livestream here has brought me right back to the rollercoaster of emotions 😭

SuperSonicBlur

Fun fact, it's not just survive being referenced on the island it's also Zeus' commands to Ody in The Infant and the Horse and the vision. Interesting we first here it from a good then a gods chosen and finally... A starving, broken man.

Colby Zimmermann

i think the survive motif makes a lot of sense considering they're in yet another deadly livestock situation... shows how they already know what the consequence is going to be but they have to do it anyway

Lexi Rasmussen

i'm pretty sure Calipso will be seen in the next arc since its shipwrecked sailors that end up on her shores so ur close on the money there just slighty too soon of a prediction.

Lucca Moreira

You almost got it right, it's Helio's cows, both apollo and him are mentioned in some point as god of the sun. Apollo is son of Zeus and receive the glorification because Helio is a Titan(that stayed on Zeus side in the Titan War), and Zeus hates Titans, even the one's who helped him, so he just gave his son the symbolic title but Helio is the one that light up the sky every day.

Lucca Moreira
>>142815823

no, Only Helio is the god of Sun( even though he is a Titan), but since apollo is Zeus son and Zeus hates Titans, he gave Apollo all the credit

Lucca Moreira

Could not wait to see this on Youtube, became a Patreon only for this, Love the videos and agree with you about using the last part of mutiny as an introduction to Thunder Bringer.

Tristan Acevedo
>>142839122

I like the idea behind that but Zeus likes humilating people that are prideful for his own ego, Zeus as the King of Gods would not sacrifce himself for his people.

Tristan Acevedo
>>142842941

100% I feel it much less a metaphore and really Zeus is just a creep so its a perfect dipiction of him about to tear down a King for his own ego

Jakob

I have a theory. In the song mutiny Odysseus is stabbed and Eurlyochus becomes the defect of captain he goes through a miniature version of Odysseus’ journey. When he’s talking about eating the cows it’s the same music from survive. Then it goes into luck runs out. He has his own version of just a man Full speed ahead. And then finally thunder bringer is his equivalent of ruthlessness where he pissed off a God and was helpless while all of the men under him died. Don’t know if this was intentional but fantastic. He had his own little captains journey which ended the same way.

donovan strader

as the the backing vocal of Penelope isn't real does that mean Zeus summoned her

JimmWasHere

ironically with mutiny cut in half (assuming its in half perfectly) that would make the first 2 songs 362 seconds the next 1.5 320 then the last 1.5 396.5 instead of 362, 467, 250 making the cut reasonable in terms of music length cut between 3 videos.

Akea
>>142807912

Titans are kind of like a generation, which is why it’s weird to me that people try to make this distinction. It’s kind of like saying “no he isn’t a “human” he is a “millennial””

Akea
>>142807912

Also in the odyssey they are Helios cows

Tinysweetbunny

So is this when we tell Mortius that the reason this saga was released on independence day is because Odysseus kills his crew, therefore becoming independent? :')

Sage

First I want to say (for the first time, HI) that I've been loving your reactions, but this is the first time I've ever had a Stunning Realisation at the exact same time as a reactor and it's WILD. I caught the Survive melody the first time I listened, but I didn't realise it was the same as that beat in Horse and the Infant until you did and I'm verklempt over it. Because that means it's both a callback to 1. killing the wrong cattle and losing a bunch of men, including one of his oldest friends 2. having to make a devastating choice that changes him forever (AND that also means musically setting up Odysseus's choice in Remember Them: he's choosing mercy now, when he couldn't before. Except it still means blood on his hands.)

Valsaires

So I'm not sure if someone else has pointed this out already, but it's just been brought to my attention that the piano at the end of Thunderbringer? That KH menu music bit? That's from My Goodbye. "One day, you'll hear what I'm saying One day, you might understand...."

Nasylum

He Who Needs No Introduction has come to crush our hearts.

Dorothy Rosenberg

I think your accidental splitting “Mutiny” was fortunate. I”m impressed that Odysseus recovered so quickly from being skewered by his crewman.

Sam Robinson

Noticed as well that all parts of the prophet’s vision came true in this saga: Song of past romance = suffering Sacrifice of man = Scylla Portrayals of betrayal & brother’s final stand = mutiny Brink of death & draw your final breath = thunder bringer

kaawro

well, that's when the "The blood on your hands is something you won't lose, all you can choose is whose" is back to bite us in the ass.... :(

James Courtney
>>142847189

Sort of. Apollo started to be associated with the Sun after the Romans started to do so and it snuck back into his Greek characterization. I’m not sure if there was a specific myth reason given so I lean towards that Apollo and Helios just kinda work together but it’s never directly stated.

Lucca Moreira
>>142847189

But in Greek mythology it was always Helio, there's no exact mention that he was the only one, but he is the one that light up the sky everyday, he part of alot of stories because of this, like Aphrodite and Ares affair, he is the one that saw and told Hefesto about it, he was the one who saw Hades abduct Persephone, and in the Odysse he is called the god of the sun, since he is the owner of the cows, but in Roman Mythology could be differente, they are like the same with some differences

Samara Grimes

Okay so I haven’t seen anyone mention it, so I’m going to— the sun god that they’re referring to isn’t Apollo. There was a sun before Apollo took over, and he’s the one who has the sacred cattle. His name is Helios

Doodlebop

Idk if anyone else already mentioned, but the cows belong to Helios, the god of the sun. (Apollo is a god of the sun, just not the one they are referring to) Fun fact: Helios is Zeus's cousin and Circe's father!

Skittles91000

The ending being a very sad and solemn piano...piano being Athena's instrument...Wisdom Saga being next...

AwarePlot

The zeus motif you had a revelation about “a vision of what is to come” in each song (survive,horse and infant, and mutiny) they all repeat this same structure twice. It makes me wonder since it’s obviously deliberate what it means. My initial thought was “this is kind of story narration for the audience” but that doesnt work for Survive. So I’m not sure

Amel Resa

Fun fact: Zeus is the only god so far who hasn't had his name mentioned in the songs he's a part of. Athena, Hermes, Poseidon, Circe, and Aeolus all have either had their names called out by a character or in the chorus, but not Zeus. All he has is the thunder. Also the piano motif at the end is either the same or similar to the one at the end of "My Goodbye" where Athena is saying "one day you might hear what I'm saying, one day you might understand"

Imara121

I just noticed the animation has the crew draw weapons and try to kill Odysseus after he picks them. At least that's what it looks like. Dark.

max yoder

This saga covered most of the prophets predictions. "Song of Past Romance" is Suffering. "Sacrafice of Man" is Scilla. "Portrales of betrayal and a brothers final stand." Is muttiny. All thats left is drawing his final breath and making it home.

tristan

so we fulfilled some of the prophets tellings. a song of past romance: sirens a sacrifice of man: scylla portrayals of betrayal: mutiny a brothers final stand: thunder bringer

xairin

no hunt cows 🐮

Kat
>>143110696

“A man who is haunting, a man with a trail of bodies” has to be Odysseus

Kat
>>143110696

Also I thought the brothers final stand was Mutiny. Really by that point Eurylochus was tired. I think he knew that eating the cows would at least kill HIM. I see the “betrayal” as E. admitting that he opened the bag and Scylla says “leaving them (or you, I don’t remember) feeling betrayed”

Kat

What’s worse about Thunder Bringer is that Zeus is so threatening that the first words out of his mouth are him detailing a situation where he’s A PREDATOR. When Zeus finally gets around to talking to our man IN THE SECOND FUCKING VERSE LMAO he literally tells us that he already knows what Odysseus will choose. He’s just being a DICK ABOUT IT LMAOOOO bro said “no don’t tell me TELL THEM you’re choosing to kill them to save yourself.”

tristan
>>143110696

My reasoning is odyseus was betrayed by his men as they chose mutiny and eurylochus while he made a stand in mutiny also rushed him in the end of thunder bringer before zues struck them down.

fluffqueen91

The way Odysseus points when he ~chooses~ at 30:27 reminds me SO MUCH of the way Tiresias points at Odysseus in "No Longer You"....If AnniFlamma diD THAT ON PURPOSE, I SWEAR-!! 😩 Every single time I think this musical couldn't break me more than it already has...💔

Licky

I think the Pride metaphor refers to Zeus stripping away Odysseus's "pride" as a captain and a king and revealing him to be, literally, just a man who wants to get home to his wife and son by making him choose between his people/his crewmates or himself.

OneTrueKing IntrovertKing

Just to clear up some confusion, when Odysseus is referring to the ‘Sun God’, he’s not referring to Apollo but Helios, (at least according to Homer’s Odyssey anyway)

Jayie
>>142901123

Honestly, it sounds like he was out for a few days at least? The crew didn’t mention being starving until he woke up, and the island they landed on wasn’t one Odysseus had seen before getting knocked out, so they must’ve sailed for a bit before spotting it.

Jayie
>>142814109

He really does just show up to offer Odysseus shitty choices and sing creepy songs about undressing women, huh? XD

Kori

The piano part at the end reminds me so much of the cut song 'Olive Tree'.

Dorothy Rosenberg
>>142901123

Excellent observation - but Odysseus awakes, can speak coherently, realize the significance of their situation, order his men not to kill the sacred cattle, free himself from his bonds, and get his men to flee. This is typical opera where heroine (dying of consumption) delivers a 5 minute aria before expiring. Suspended reality.

CKTKat

Jorge takes so much joy from breaking our hearts with these songs. For Thunder Bringer, there is a Goddess of Pride which I think is why Zeus uses female pronouns.

Phoenix Mackenzie
>>143580425

Pretty sure this is just Zeus being Zeus and making it sexual not actually referencing the goddess of pride, speaking about exposing odys pride and what he's willing to do in front of his crew

TheeDanishViking

Now while the animation in this is absolutely epic and gorgeous. I must say that "Neil illustrator" 's version of Thunder Bringer is better because of a few details, also his version of Zeus is sooo him!

Slater Nix

I know it's a late comment but I just wanted to toss out a animatic for thunder bringer. It was made by Duvetbox. I think you and Casper might like it.

Seiryunohoushi

I was SO upset that mutiny got cut in half that it pushed me over the edge and I got a Patreon membership. I absolutely love your reactions. I feel like I relate so hard to how you react to each song from the musicals you’ve done this for.

Anthony Patterson

There is just one problem with your assumption that it's Apollo the sun god, it's not, Apollo didn't become the sun god until the Romans took over, at the time the Odyssey was written the sun god was Helios, and the moon goddess was Seline. When the Romans appropriated Greek mythology they combined Helios and Seline with Artemis and Apollo

SK Elkins
>>142901123

I don't really know if it matters, but in Homer's Odyssey, the men are on that island for a month, slowly dying of starvation and unable to sail anywhere else due to Poseidon's control, able to do pretty much nothing but repeatedly fail to find any food sources, all while surrounded by those plump, happy, friendly cows. Eurylochus's decision comes across as far less of a head-banger when the timeline isn't so telescoped.

Dorothy Rosenberg
>>142901123

I’m always puzzled that no one fishes. We know they have nets & harpoons - yet they use these tools only to catch floating islands and sirens?