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Episode 308 – The Fall of Anatolia (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-28 13:34:24
Imported:
2026-06
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Downloads

  • 308_The_Fall_of_Anatolia.mp3
  • 308_The_Fall_of_Anatolia.mp3

Missing 1 full-res photo, 2 files.

Content

The arrival of the Mongols in Anatolia would eventually lead to the expulsion of the Romans. Mongol dominance of the plateau sent waves of tribes into Byzantine territory. It was a crisis which the Emperor Andronikos was not equal to.

Period: 1281-1303

Pic: 19th-century depiction of Osman (the founder of the Ottoman dynasty) by Konstantin Kapıdağlı

Files

Previews only

Comments

Matt Hill

I can't help but feel sad about the events in this episode. I know it's illogical, that all this happened 700+ years ago, and that these events have no bearing on my personal identity or history, or my ancestors' identity or history... but I can't help but feel a sense of loss. I can mentally acknowledge that this is just the way the world worked back then, that one group would try to dominate another group to acquire wealth, status, power, resources, etc., and that the Roman state was originally one of the biggest offenders of waltzing in, killing people, and taking what they wanted... but listening to the story of the Romans' internal conflicts and slow decline into destruction provokes in me the desire to lament their downfall. I suppose it's partially the product of Robin's supremo storytelling, a compelling narrative that makes you identify with the protagonist to the point of feeling sad when it all ends. But it feels deeper than that. Why, I don't know, but it does. "I'm not crying you're crying!!!"

Jack Hanke

I feel the same way as Matt. It's got to be a function of nearly 500 episodes of following the Romans, but I'm still dreading this one, however illogically. Come on, Robin. I don't need this kind of negativity in my life!

Paul Astalas

this is the first episode where i fully grasp that the podcast is gonna end

Paul Astalas

maybe after the podcast ends in 1453 robin will give us an alternate ending starting with this episode

Matt Brennan
>>147822880

The narrative might end but I think robin has plans to keep the podcast going for a long time

Kωnstantinos T.

A band of Akrites harassing a Turkic tribe, a Roman governor counting yurts outside his city walls, a Turkic mercenary playing both sides. I'm not in desperate need of a "House of War" style episode series but damn it'd be nice.

Alan Boughey
>>147815792

"It feels deeper than that" - I agree and think I can see a number of reasons why we emotionally identify with the Romans and their decline, some of which will resonate with different people to varying extents, though they are all just my own idle speculation. (1) Heroic recovery - The Romans are really good at producing great Emperors to rescue the situation from complete disaster (which was often of the the Romans own making). People that we can emotionally relate to as they battle against the odds. Michael is a good recent example. (2) Heroic failure - Despite the above, it is a story arc of inexorable decline which is also a dramatic and fascinating story. What new enemy is going to come swooping down on them next? What is going to next screw up the delicate balancing act of vested interests that is the Roman state? How the hell do these people manage to survive? What does it feel like to live in and endure this? Is this what's happening now to modern Western society (it certainly feels like it sometimes)? Again, more stuff we can emotionally relate to. Maybe we can relate to decline in our own private lives. (3) What if? - There are so many points where we can imagine ourselves doing it better (with Robin's help, of course!) and saving the Empire (hurrah!). Definitely a favourite occupation of mine. We want to do that because we emotionally identify with the Romans and the act of saving them reinforces that bond.

Mark Simms

This episode made me think of the phrase, demography is destiny. The world will keep changing. Societies will change and adapt, and to a degree, be replaced. Identities will shift.

Eric Juhos

Would be fun to do a horse-ride across the Anatolian plain. I want to feel what it's like crossing it - waiting for that Turkey trip Robin.

Vincent Verzumo

The largest, toughest society wins bottom line. The Turks were tougher and more numerous (atleast in men willing to fight) so they won and got to rule. If you can’t maintain a network of defenses/armies at your borders as well as in concentric circles or whatever shape you want to use then you’re toast. What it would have taken were loyal, large armies that could operate independently in eastern Anatolia and who wouldn’t revolt and try to acclaim their general as the new emperor any and every time they achieved success. It’s very tough once the enemy is inside your country however. This is why border integrity is so crucial. States have to be able to protect their borders while also defending in depth so as not to risk an all or nothing battle where if you lose the invader is running wild and free throughout your territory. Finally you need an excellent native military recruitment and training system/pipeline that can handle the bulk of the duties while using mercenaries as auxiliary troops. Consistently relying on mercenary armies will always eventually end in defeat. A lot easier said than done and most medieval states couldn’t accomplish these tasks but it’s true nevertheless.

Mikhail Soumar

Is there any evidence that Constantinople was directly drawing the resources from rump Anatolia in the decades before it was lost? Namely feeding the urban population and resupplying their numbers. As time goes by the city continues to be remarked as huge, but as we get farther from the heyday of nonstop grain ships from Egypt and Africa I wonder just how much of an urban population the Romans can actually sustain.

Robin Pierson
>>151612602

The population of the city crashed after the Fourth Crusade. I think Jon Giebfried was estimating 50,000 or less under the Latins. The population will have started growing again with the Byzantine return and especially now that refugees from Anatolia arrive. But nothing that can't be fed from local sources (i.e. the farms of Thrace) and the food brought in by merchants from across the Aegean

PaulyWalnuts
>>148522207

That’s one thing sadly that we lack time and time again in this time of crisis. It’s either leaders thinking they know how to rule better so they rebel or the army just not staying a solid force - 1204 would have been less of a disaster if the various centers of power untied quickly. Same with post 1261 if Epirus and Trebizond bent the knee.