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Episode 309 – Cautious and Weak (Patreon)

Published:
2024-09-04 23:31:23
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We look at Andronikos II Palailogos' domestic arrangements and European wars. After disbanding his fleet to save money the Emperor was repeatedly humiliated by the Venetians. We also look at the Emperor's personality to understand why he was not best suited to the difficult times he lived in.

Period: 1281-1303

Comments

erik w bjorke

When you need an Alexios I and you get an Andronikos II.

Paul Astalas
>>148535709

This speaks to how well did Alexios I managed to handle the post-manzikert situation. In a situation maybe not as bad but certanly bad, he somehow kept the things together. If an even mediocre emperor was in charge, all could have went to hell then and there. Without the first crusade to remove the turks from Nicea, so close to Europe, they may have crossed the straits somehow and with that and the normans roman civilisation would have ended 400 years earlier.

Paul Astalas

The way robin speaks about things since the recapture of Constantinople, it feels like no emperor could have done anything to stop the decline. So many problems problems on all sides. This really bums me out.

Jack Hanke

With how gloomy recent episodes have been, it's worth highlighting just how far we've come, I think. Since the 1250s, the narrative has been describing events that are closer to the present than they are to the fall of the Western Empire in 476. We're now well into the "second half" of post-classical history. It's wild to think that Andronikos II was born closer to today, September 5th, 2024, than he was to the end of Romulus Augustus's brief tenure. And the world really is starting to look like it - the Turks are beginning to consolidate their control over modern Turkey, the Balkans are turning into a fight between peoples who identify as Serbs, Bulgarians, and Hellenes, rather than ancient tribes people no longer identify with today, and we're only a quarter-century away from firearms becoming a real element of warfare in parts of Europe. This podcast, along with The History of Rome, really has taken us through a remarkably long sweep of history.

luke criniti

So happy to have finally caught up with episodes very excited for next week

Robin Pierson
>>148541662

It's really tricky. We don't have the sources to give a more detailed analysis. How was Michael VIII able to rule for 20 years - spending lots of money but then Andronikos immediately has to abandon the fleet? Was Michael using up the Nicaean reserves and gaining booty when he retook territory and that helped him pay for things? Did he spend loads on the anti-Charles of Anjou diplomacy that could have been saved? It's very difficult to tell. It's certainly possible that a different Emperor could have done things differently. But the reason I'm pessimistic about the situation in Anatolia is because we've seen it before. Almost literally in the post-Manzikert era and the Romans failed then despite having far more to work with.

Neil H

Great episode, and I feel like you basically answered the earlier question (about the threats raised by equipping a professional army to fight in Anatolia) in your summary at the end. The entire problem of the possibility of an army turning against the emperor is pretty much mitigated if said army is led by, you know, the emperor. The string of successes in the field by Philanthropenos, Tracheiotes and then Roger de Flor shows that the Turks were far from unbeatable on the battlefield itself. If Andronikos was an Alexios I or John I (or hell, even his father) and actually took the field with his troops himself, who knows how different things could have been.

George Boutselis

The Venetians are always up to something

Sascha

I feel it quite apropiate that the last episodes cover many years (compare it e.g. to the Alexios episodes). The empire is mostly only a bystander, there is barely any reaction possible. The biggest show for me was the reaction to the Venetians this episode. Can you imagine even 100 years ago that there wouldn't be a usurper using this situation? It seems even the elites accepted the impotence of the empire.

Guillem N

This Wednesday is the national day of Catalonia Robin, perfect timing for the Catalan company episode.

Baker

Finally caught up! I’ve been so spoiled binge listening to this show. Podcast has been amazing Robin! Since this narrative is getting close to its end, have any ideas on future narratives been discussed? Looking forward to see what you next project will be