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Star Trek: TNG 3x14 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-14 18:00:07
Imported:
2026-06
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Star Trek TNG 3×14 Full Reaction

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Comments

Ryan

This is kind of an odd case where the fans generally really love the episode, but quite a few people involved with the show have been very vocal that they hate it. Michael Piller especially said he loved the script and how every part of the mystery came around to making sense, but the execution didn’t live up to it at all in a way he couldn’t pin down. None of which matters to me because I really dig it, especially the way they don’t feel the need to have some twist to why the characters remember things differently. Sometimes that just happens, and self-serving memory is a hell of a drug. It’s also very impressive how the solution doesn’t feel at all like a cheat despite relying on nonsense science, because we get enough about how it all supposedly works and the reveal fits perfectly into that, plus the human emotions involved are understandable no matter what. And it’s always a treat to see Mark Margolis, a hardworking character actor for decades who could always be counted on to show up and give his all, even in something as ignominious as a cameo in Ace Ventura. The guy even gave an unforgettable performance as someone who can only move a single finger in two different shows! Add one final bonus with a Riker facepalm that became nearly as memetic as Picard’s just last episode, and I have no idea what those crew members were on about.

Thomas Corp

Good to be back sharing Next Gen with you, Jess. Had a momentary lapse of not noticing the changed set-up, till you said it, as I’ve been used to it already in other videos. You brought it up, and I said, “Oh, yeah, you’re right.” Shared neurosis, so I get it. Now to the episode. Solid Riker episode. One that’s up there in terms of favorite Riker episodes, though not my favorite Riker episode as we won’t get to that one until, I believe it’s late season six. It feels like this episode gets overlooked/not talked about all that much. I know at least one chief reason as to why. It does have bad luck with being sandwiched between two specific episodes. It’s preceded by Déjà Q, and then of course, there is the episode following this one. We will get to that episode soon enough. Consequently, this episode, A Matter of Perspective gets a tiny bit lost in the shuffle. Start by talking about the opening for a moment. Picard painting a giant portrait of Beverly would have been marvelous, alas, no, to both our disappointment. Data inadvertently impugning Picard’s work, though the scene is meant to be humorous, was painful, I said, “Oh, I feel your pain, Jean-Luc.” I can’t paint myself. Wish I could as it would be most freeing and therapeutic. To the main point of the episode. I liked how you greatly liked the Rashomon of it all in this episode. Love a good murder mystery. Solid guest cast, chief amongst them, the late great Mark Margolis. Mark’s one guy who was awesome even before everyone else recognized him as Hector. Hector just simply elevated him in being more recognizable after being in the, “Hey, it’s that guy!” category of character actors for so long. And as you observe, and I agree, it is a great exploration of objective versus subjective truth; perception of reality. Credit to Jonathan in his performance of Riker as we’re familiar with him, and Riker in an inauthentic representation of his actions. These themes are also well shown with Krag as he’s not a villain, nor even an antagonist. Instead, he’s a man doing his job. He even makes a point of saying he’s not unsympathetic to Picard’s desire to protect Riker, as well as he appreciates Picard arguing that in Federation law, Riker is considered to be presumed innocent. (Man, just saying that makes me hear the fantastic and thoroughly underrated John Williams music for that film.) True, his surmise of Riker using the phaser doesn’t wash, but that is what most testimony is: a theory which happens to suit the facts. Picard knows this: It’s not what you know. It’s what you can prove. And his scene with him and Deanna is great how they both say of course Riker is innocent. But Krag did produce sufficient evidence, and they have no proof to contest that. And it’s in these proceedings that Riker has his own heavily memed facepalm, which is jarring to see in context, more specifically how it’s not in response to Picard making dad-jokes. Thankfully, we have Data, Wesley, and especially Geordi coming in clutch. LeVar gets the fantastic “Here’s what happened” denouement. Apgar’s plan really backfired. You’d think instead of the laser set-up it would have been simpler to just use the hotel lobby bell pipe bomb method of killing to do away with Riker. In light of Geordi’s demonstration, I like how Krag withdraws his petition without argument and even offers apology to Riker. Dude was a class act. Unfortunately, there is the main issue you had. The matter of the false-rape allegation that Manua made against Riker. I have heard an idea that there was mutual flirting from both parties, that she then, perhaps, internalized the guilt into the false-rape allegation, which, doesn’t really help much. Because as you said, and I do understand what you said, I agree with you, Jess, that it is such a problematic thing. How so many women come forward, and their allegations are dismissed with the, “Oh, he’s such a stand-up guy; he wouldn’t even harm a fly” response. Now, we of course know that is true of Riker in his upstanding character is likely being falsely accused. Or hell, even Kirk being the over-aggressive flirty birdy that he was, if he was in Riker’s place it would STILL feel a stretch. Which brings the other problem, like you said, you’re not saying there can’t be situations where men are genuinely falsely accused, this does, however, lean into the overall thing of women coming forward about such a claim being dismissed. The bigger issue that I’m with you on is that we never did revisit the topic, nor Manua’s reasoning or thought process or feelings. And yeah, as you are saying, if one is going to tackle these topics, one should be prepared to delve into it some, uncomfortable though it is, and they never do, and it is an objective issue with the episode, so I would not say you were being too sensitive. I also shared the discomfort of both presentations of what happened. First, when Manua is presented as the aggressor, and then when Riker is definitely presented as the aggressor. Both presentations, there was equal discomfort. Thus ending the Sesskasays reaction with discomfort, which, like you said, Sesskasays reactions are like a box of chocolates. You never know how you’re going to feel at the end of it, as you describe. As to you phrasing and explaining things properly, you did well. I would like to apologize if I did not do so well. If anything I said upset or offended you, then I am sorry, and I feel your thing of these are the gut reactions, and later, how you realize you could have said or done things differently/in a more concise or eloquent manner. That recurring feeling of, “Yeah. That specific argument and/or phrasing would have been useful... SEVEN hours ago when I NEEDED IT.” Regardless, you say you feel that this reaction was not good, quite the opposite in fact, the reaction was great, Jess, and I thank you for it. You always have such great reactions; this one was no different. Thank you for the great reaction.

Thomas Corp
>>158287020

I had heard the creative staff has a poor assessment of this episode. Contrast to fans generally having a favorable response as yeah, the episode is solid, despite the one problem with it that made Jess uncomfortable, which I hear her on that one. Always love good Rashomon style episodes, and this one is done well. It’s a great demonstration of “Let each man say what he deems truth and let truth itself be commended unto God.” as Lessing said. You do get a bit lost on some of the specifics of the technobabble, but it’s explained well enough to be able to follow along. Plus, the human emotions involved balance it out. Mark Margolis was always great whenever he popped up from Scarface, his amazing cameo as Mr. Shickadance in Ace Ventura, or I also remember him popping up for about a minute in Hannibal and he made an impression. It was nice to see him gain greater recognition with his outstanding work of giving an unforgettable performance as someone who can only move a single finger in two different shows. Albeit the latter did give him some scenes before being only able to move a single finger. I especially loved the scene where he went to Los Pollo Hermanos to confront Gus, and Mark and Giancarlo delivering phenomenal acting. I have seen the Riker facepalm used so much more than the Picard one, to the point that like I said, it’s jarring when you get reminded of the context. One thing I can think of with the creative staff’s problems with this is that I believe it was Piller who mentioned what a logistical nightmare it was for the episode’s director. And given this is network television, you don’t have the luxury of time that was, for example, the, what was it, months, that Mike Flanagan had to map out and choreograph and rehearse the Two Storms episode of Hill House. So, that part I could understand. By and large, though, like we’re saying, the episode was solid, even with the aspects that made Jess as uncomfortable as it made her; really don’t blame her on that one.

Ryan
>>158293256

It’s especially uncomfortable to get this episode right now, with the accuser from the high profile Duke lacrosse rape case having just admitted she made it up. And a big reason that I tend to go easy on older stories that simply never bring up issues like this, as it’s unlikely writers at the time would have approached it with anything like what’s now seen as the proper sensitivity (and really makes you wonder what current writers are messing up that future generations will call them out in).

Ryan
>>158287020

I first took real notice of Margolis in Oz. Wish he could have stayed longer.

Jenny Chalek

Yeah, I'm kinda of the opinion that Riker probably WAS acting like a horndog, possibly too forward for the woman's tastes. So maybe not completely innocent. It made me uncomfortable that they just glossed over the whole SA accusation, just like you Jess. Maybe I'm too sensitive too.

Thomas Corp
>>158318974

I’ve been reflecting on it further, especially how Riker acts a bit cagey in the beginning. It does feel like there is a hint or two that suggests that if Riker’s not knowingly lying, he’s maybe downplaying or omitting certain key details, like that he may not have acted like the model of an officer and a gentleman. Maybe not to complete raging horndog levels, but still, maybe he was not completely innocent and was, as you described, possibly too forward for the woman’s tastes, hence her testimony painting him as aggressive as he came across in said testimony. Which DOES tie into themes of people telling the truth as they perceived it, and actual fact likely lying somewhere in the middle of that. The problem as Jess, and we’ve been saying as well, to keep the ambiguity, we never follow-up on it, or actually dive into Manua’s reasoning or thought process or feelings. She and Riker never even have one last conversation which could have been an opportunity for that, for instance, both parties could have offered explanations and apologies. I would not say that you or Jess are being too sensitive. I’m with Jess on being big on consent, and I was feeling discomfort in both testimonies of the key moment in question. In Riker’s testimony of Manua being quite forward, I was uncomfortable with the idea of that without verification of Riker being ok with that. The flip side to that is that Manua’s testimony with Riker being REALLY quite forward was very unpleasant to see. Even if you have the fairly strong surmise that he didn’t actually behave in that manner, it doesn’t make it any easier to see. If people still say that Jess, you, or me are too sensitive, well, ok then, we’re too sensitive, but that is the genuine feelings on the matter.

Tsuliwaensis
>>158318974

I'm not sure where the idea of being "too sensitive" about this kind of thing is coming from. it's a massive problem, a lot more people should be a lot more sensitive about it!

Tsuliwaensis

this was definitely the 80s being extra patronizing with their misogyny, they were saying that it's not that women are straight up lying when they report sexual assaults, it's just that they're mistaken and confused. yupp, this is a very uncomfortable watch. and the way everyone was so happy in the end, just ignoring the whole thing - 'cause who cares anyway - put the cherry on top of all that.

aidan

Hey Jess, can I suggest you watch The Suicide Squad (2021)? Imo the best superhero film ever made