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Star Trek: TNG 3x16 Full Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-28 18:00:04
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2026-06
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Star Trek TNG 3×16 Full Reaction

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Comments

Josef Schiltz

Your face on the thumbnail says it all, Jess. That's how I felt about this one. Just too much. Especially the last scenes which are just too powerfully well played for me at the moment.

Jenny Chalek

This episode always makes me cry. I knew what was going to happen already because I have vivid memories of seeing this when it was first run.

Ian Smith

Two of my Top 5 TNG stories, back to back! I love this for entirely different reasons to the previous episode; particularly as,at this moment in my life, my daughter is living with me - just the two of us. In another couple of months she will be leaving home and finding her own way in life; which means that I will find this episode increasingly difficult to watch. Nonetheless, it is extremely well written - and beautifully played!

Ryan

Along with a super expensive episode like Yesterday's Enterprise comes its inevitable counterpart, the bottle episode. Wall to wall facial expressions and emotional nuance. And hopefully you were having a better time before heading into this one, because as soon as I saw it was next, I was thinking "Oh, this is going to kick her ass." Rene Echevarria submitted this script unsolicited, much like Ron Moore, and also got a long job with the franchise in return, though his career outside of Trek hasn't had the success you'd hope, being most notable for the notorious expensive flop Terra Nova. Most of all, I appreciate how he doesn't take the easy way out by having Lal turn evil, and keeps the focus purely on the emotional story like I was hoping The Bonding would do. The result is another big example I like to use of how a standalone hour-long episode of TV can be plenty to tell a meaningful, emotionally resonant story without any serialized elements necessary. Of course, a big part of that success is down to Hallie Todd, a lifelong actress from a show business family who first appeared onscreen in the belly of her mother Ann Morgan Guilbert during her role on The Dick Van Dyke Show. Both her physicality and speech perfectly nail Lal's growing humanity throughout the story, and easily create the connection to her which is essential for the investment we have by the end. You can technically argue she was a bit too old for the role at 28 (13 years younger than Brent), but this is a case where I'm totally fine with it, both because it's such a complex role that you need someone with the proper experience, and the scene with Riker that I'm sure Frakes was already feeling awkward enough about having to direct. One thing that inevitably has to be brought up is the discussion about Lal's identity, one of those times where it's clear the crew is making an earnest effort to be progressive and open-minded, but are still stymied by working in a time where certain concepts just weren't part of any regular discussion yet, and determining whether it's good or bad is kind of pointless, feeling like getting a free frogurt that's also cursed. Data's decision to allow her to choose every aspect of her own identity must have been pretty mind-blowing at a time when trans issues were mostly portrayed in the Dressed to Kill model, but it's hard not to wince when the proto-Lal declares their neutral gender "inadequate" and Data and Troi both casually accept it. Though it's also appreciated that they got a male performer rather than Hallie in the robot suit, which very much helps sell that it was a real transformation. And then, that ending. You kind of suspect it's coming since even with the show's other steps toward more long-form storytelling, there's no way in hell a status quo change this big was going to stick, but that doesn't help at all. The Admiral has a surprisingly believable arc of coming around just by seeing Data's inhumanly desperate attempt to save her (and very good choice on just having him describe it rather than doing an onscreen repeat of Data's card sorting from The Naked Now, which would be impossible to take seriously), though I do wish they could have brought Maddox back to support Data this time after learning his own lesson. Definitely one of the most devastating endings the show ever had, which is quite impressive since it's all about a character we only just met. But that's the power good writing can have.

Thomas Corp

Two emotional Star Trek episodes to end the year on. Yeah, similar thing of when you learn the initial set-up that science fiction makes you ponder which direction this is going. The end result is one that results in the sadness. Massive credit given to Hallie Todd who is really damn good here as Lal. You spoke well of how everyone was sweet and supportive. Even if Picard is initially wary, he comes around. You can see how Picard takes Data’s points, but it still puts Picard in a damned awkward position, vis-à-vis Data’s progeny. Leads to yet another iconic Picard facepalm which has also proven useful at times. And once again, Picard is a rank sentimentalist and stands by Data, warming your heart something fierce, which was a delight to see, Jess. Nice too, that Data allows Lal the option of gender and species. I was a bit of a wiseass by saying, “Now I think it’s a bit early to start imposing roles, don’t you?” Nonetheless, it is a good message. One that holds up well. A little dated in the presentation given this was 1990, but the general sentiment translates well to this day and age. And we see Lal made her choice: Female with a Madeline Kahn as Mrs. White style bob it is. Shame we never do get a scene of Data saying to Lal, “This is Geordi. He is my bestie.” I’d imagine you’d have adored that. Guinan was very sweet this episode. Loved how she and Data express their surprise at Lal using contractions. Rather conveniently ignoring the one previous occasion when Data did use a contraction. An occasion that I had the headcanon of the high-pressure situation led to the out-of-character moment. And my headcanon here is it was such a high-pressure situation that Data somewhat blacked out there, hence his forgetfulness in the previous use of the contraction. I know your aversion to the unwanted kissing. In this scenario, you allow something of a pass, whilst feeling for Riker, and at the same time, loving his perfect expression of, “Jesus Christ, I was only gone two days, what ELSE did I miss!?” I adore the scene where Data seeks Beverly’s advice. We both had anger towards Haftel. One area that got me particularly mad was his being so averse to Lal being in Ten Forward. Bringing your kid to a bar is not unhealthy. There are many fond memories of that with my dad, plus, most of the mandatory community service you needed to graduate high school, most of it was attained working at the lodge, helping my dad, and it was all great experiences. So, I got sent off on a tangent on that one, calmed down, and observed, “...Apparently, that’s a trigger for me.” We all opposed Haftel’s arguments. The one we, Picard, and Data conceded was that there is the concern you could lose both Data and Lal in one fell swoop similar to what happened to the Sullivan brothers. Seems odd that the encounter with Lore never got brought up, but maybe Picard never reported about that out of respect for Data. We express respect to Data for having the fantastic counters. Shame that Data does not partake in snappy fingers when having his very astute observations, but thankfully, he has you, Jess, to partake in the snappy fingers when Data says shit like that. It gets the blood going when Picard is insulted by accusation of since he is not a parent, he could not understand. Yes, Picard knows that for a man such as himself, parenthood is not in the cards. Short of a miracle, I’m in that same boat, my brother, likewise. Mom’s surprisingly not all that upset about it, and Dad never complained. So, it’s great to see Patrick sell Picard’s conviction of fighting for Data and Lal, and making it clear that we’re not having Data be like Abraham offering Isaac as a burnt offering as a sign of love for God. Bringing us to the tragedy when Lal experiences the emotions. Marina gets me how she sells Deanna’s realization of feeling Lal’s emotions. Leads to Haftel offering assistance, knew you’d reject that, which, well, we are both Slytherins, thus, by extension, we are petty bitches, so I’m with you there. It does say something though that after being such a sterling example of someone who is a member of the International Conspiracy of Horses’ Asses for the whole episode, Haftel has the change of heart, and his big final scene gets you. Just as everything about Lal’s death got me, and now your striking reaction to all of it is one for the books. Brent excels at showing how Data feels the pain and heartbreak even if he cannot literally feel it. And Lal crushes our hearts with the “He cannot cry, so I will cry for him.” moment. Again, highly emotional end to the year of Star Trek with you, which was so lovely, and it means a lot to know our kindness is appreciated. In terms of Star Trek reactions this year: we opened with one of them, that being The Arsenal of Freedom. Giving it further thought, Déjà Q and Yesterday’s Enterprise exceeded all expectations. Then there’s your reactions to Geordi getting the time to shine, chiefly Loud as a Whisper, Booby Trap, and The Enemy. Others standing out at the moment are Peak Performance and The Bonding. All of your Star Trek reactions are just so amazing, so there are probably some I’m overlooking how much I enjoyed them. The Hunted is just now another one that springs to mind. But really, this year has been a veritable feast of marvelous Star Trek reactions, and they were all so cherished. Even if the episodes themselves weren’t the best, you were always amazing, Jess. Thank you for those reactions, this week’s reaction, and I look forward to the future great reactions in this upcoming new year.

Thomas Corp
>>159607670

Yeah, the emotions are just too powerfully well played for me at the moment as well. Part of that is the timing with the holiday blues, which have been bad for more than two decades now. These past five years have been infinitely WORSE in that regard. On the other hand, an episode as sad as this one just lets you sob, so there is that.

Ryan
>>159613707

I was thinking the hair was like Will Byers. I feel free to be that petty after Noah turned into such an asshole these last couple years. A little preview of my thoughts on Cabaret, the bar scene got me thinking of a line from Pinocchio I've also been planning to use there, regarding how social norms are always changing: "Look at you, smoking, drinking, playing pool!"

Thomas Corp
>>159613707

Behind on the Stranger Things of it all, so I didn’t think of that one. Also, behind on knowing about the guy turning into an asshole as a matter of fact. Good Pinocchio reference by the way.

Thomas Corp
>>159613473

I have read that Yesterday’s Enterprise was a bit of a resource sink leading to the bottle episodes. I also heard Snodgrass wasn’t too keen on this one, though her main point of contention was she felt it derivative of Measure of a Man in certain respects, which I can understand that complaint. Her complaint aside, this one is a standout. It is a relief that Lal does not turn evil, keeping the focus on the emotions. Hallie Todd delivers in this episode. It’s interesting too as her default image, at least amongst people around my age is Lizzie McGuire’s mom. She is excellent here. The age discrepancy works for the reasons you note of you need someone who can pull off the nuance, and it makes for a far less awkward (not to mention illegal) situation with the Riker scene. Like I mentioned, you do applaud the efforts that the writers were trying to do with the gender identity, whilst remembering when this got made. There are the spots that make you cringe, then you note, “To be fair, awareness back then wasn’t what it is now, so...” And this is two years prior to The Crying Game, which, although that also shows its age at spots, its central themes and messages still translate well today. Good note on the male performer to help sell that it was a real transformation. Given this is network television, you would imagine Lal would not stay as part of the cast, yet there is the question of precisely what will happen to her. The heartbreak just suckers you. Kudos to Nicolas Coster for selling Haftel changing his tune. The Naked Now style speedy hands, yeah, that would risk pulling you out of the scene, so good that it’s kept offscreen. Bringing Maddox back would have been interesting. Damn good writing if we meet and lose Lal in one episode, and it is as devastating as it is.

Josef Schiltz
>>159607670

Oh, this is my worst time of year. Always has been and the Ichthyosis has had a bad flare up over the last week. I could always cope with the brain being how it is, that bit is actually quite easy for me, but the Ichthyosis is something that I REALLY COULD DO WITHOUT!!

Thomas Corp
>>159607670

Don’t think I have Ichthyosis. But more than a decade of janitorial work leaves my hands rather chemically compromised. A feeling that is exacerbated by the cold weather of this time of year. There was a bad flare up a few days ago with almost every finger splitting open some. But while the physical pain of the holiday season has abated somewhat, the mental and emotional pain has, to date, not. Though you do live with it as you can. Jess and her videos are a help, the Batman Returns reaction being amazing. I know the genre’s not your cup of tea, I respect that. That reaction, this one, and last week’s Star Trek are proving most helpful.

Josef Schiltz
>>159607670

Well, with Ichthyosis, the condition is hereditary and someone else in your family is more likely to have it - or have had it - and it is lifelong. However, there are skin lotions though - which, I suspect, you tried many. There is a specific one from Medline, a repair cream that is used in care facilities. I ship some over from the States myself. A nuisance, with shipping, but it helps. The NHS will only provide stuff that is petroleum based and clogs up the pores whilst the skin needs to breathe.

Thomas Corp
>>159607670

Yeah, no one in the family, far as I know, has that then. There are the autoimmune diseases in particularly Dad’s side of the family, which will probably kill me years down the road. But haven’t heard anybody say they have Ichthyosis.

Josef Schiltz
>>159607670

I heard a report, years ago, of a girl in India who had been kept in a shed, out of sight, because she had Ichthyosis. When she was found she could hardly move as the encrusting skin had covered her to such a degree that she was like a crouching manikin. That got me so damned angry. The condition is a skin shedding fault.

Thomas Corp
>>159607670

Yeah, I’ve seen dermatologists, and they’ve prescribed medicines. Not recalling the precise names offhand, though the one name you mention sounds familiar. It’s alternated between creams and ointments; the latter seem to work better. In between that, you stock up on and use moisturizing creams, preferably the ones that pack the extra punch in that regard. Appreciate the words of advice.

Josef Schiltz
>>159607670

Well, you never know if something may help. I would use the aforementioned cream with my mother as well and found out about it in the very early 2000s. 👍

Geordie Joe

"Order a man to hand his child over to the state? Not while I'm his captain." Picard is full of banger quotes in season 3. I like to think of this episode as the sequel to The Measure of a Man. Someone arriving from Starfleet and challenges the rights of a Soong-type android. I suppose at least this time they weren't planning on forcibly dismantling anyone. Their overall intentions were good, but everything else was mishandled very poorly by Starfleet research and Admiral Haftel. Speaking of Haftel, he came across like yet another Starfleet Admiral with a superiority complex. A recurring TNG trope that becomes a bit stale in my opinion. My favourite TNG reaction of yours this year was easily The Bonding. Reacting to such a heavy themed episode while struggling with your anxiety. It was a very inspiring and emotional reaction. You haven't reacted to my personal favourite TNG episode just yet, but it is a season 3 episode so there's not long left to wait luckily. Thanks for all your wonderful reactions this year Jess. Wishing you and your family a very happy new year. Live Long and Prosper 🖖

Thomas Corp
>>159645179

Picard has banger quotes throughout the show, though he has had many good ones in season three. This does feel like an extension of Measure of a Man, yeah. I would say MAYBE Haftel wasn’t planning on forcibly dismantling Lal. His higher ups, on the other hand, I’m less optimistic on that. Haftel is definitely another Starfleet Admiral who’s high on himself, given his saying “I AM Starfleet” as if he was Palpatine. Wouldn’t call the trope getting stale, though it is a bit repetitive. The Bonding made for a damn good reaction. The episode’s already one that got me really bad watching it again; sharing it with Jess when she was struggling, as you say, it was very inspiring and emotional. As of last week, with the reaction to Yesterday’s Enterprise, Jess has gotten to two of my top episodes of the show thus far. One of them being Déjà Q which is one of the two I’ve watched the most as I love it so. The other one of the two I’ve watched the most, we won’t get to for a while, though as I understand it, it’s not a terribly popular episode, and even then, I’m just wanting to hear what Jess has to say about it. Good or bad, I await her assessment of the episode.

The Bill Podcast

Beautiful reaction and review Jess.