Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Filehaus
Recent
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Cabaret Reaction! (Patreon)

Published:
2025-01-01 18:00:07
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:
haven't archived this post yet. have a subscription? use the importer!

Files

Previews only

Cabaret (1972)

Full Reaction You can either stream the Full reaction below using the embedded video player, otherwise you can click the 'Download' button which will take you directly to Google Drive, enabling you to save the video to your computer instead. You must provide your own footage to watch alongside the full reactions.

Comments

Thomas Hartwell

One of the all-time best movie musicals, IMO. Fosse's direction and Grey's performance are stunning.

Ryan

What do you know, Liza Minelli outlived your not having seen this film. I first saw it a couple years ago, and immediately afterward my reaction was "After the reputation it has, that's it?" But over the following months I found myself regularly thinking back to it and becoming more and more impressed. I think a big part of the issue is that social values are constantly evolving, meaning that if you go back far enough, it's always going to be funny what a piece of media expects you to be shocked by (best exemplified by the line from Pinocchio which indicates that in 1940, playing pool was something only total scumbags would do). And my parents have made very clear that this was considered super hot and dangerous stuff at the time, however little sense that makes to me. And most of all, the scene where Brian reveals he's also been sleeping with Maximillian feels like it's supposed to be the moment where everyone spits out their mint juleps as their monocles go flying, assuming they haven't fainted on the chaise first. Ironically, the most surprising part now is that the Master of Ceremonies, as far as we can tell, is entirely straight (though the implication that he's the father of Sally's baby was added for the film, with the original show leaving it totally ambiguous). Liza Minelli and Joel Grey both won Oscars for the film (and coincidentally enough both went on to appear in The Muppet Show, Joel in one of the early experimental episodes where he performs Wilkommen, and Liza in the later years when they were much more confident and created my personal favorite episode). In those days before society had turned against "nepo babies," it's marvelous to see Liza was able to have this kind of defining role and be completely supported in it, even if her career ever since has struggled to be as big as you'd expect. And then there's Joel, a show business legend from age 10 to today, who for most of my life I'd just known from his later roles where I never saw the big deal, finding him overly cloying and twee, even as the monster he played in Alias. But then this film totally turned me around on him. As you'd probably put it, every second he's onscreen is a whole mood, and he makes the MC an indispensable part of the story even though we never see his "real" self. It would have been nice if you could go in not knowing about the historical background, but more than anything else it's what's made the show so enduring. Fosse was so determined to make the movie grounded in the era that he cut half the songs and only left in the diegetic numbers in the cabaret acts (plus the Nazi song, because it's kind of essential to the whole vibe). You note the choreography is so clearly from him, though he also took major inspiration from the 1930 German film The Blue Angel, which featured Marlene Dietrich's iconic performance of Falling in Love Again backwards in a chair (really a very odd film, where the story is literally just life shitting on a perfectly nice guy until he kills himself; we hope you've enjoyed No Moral Theatre). And that tone has also resulted in something reminiscent of the reputation of the boom box scene from Say Anything, where you'll often hear the title song as if it's a straightforward happy ditty, rather than a severely downbeat ending where Sally is desperately trying to convince herself that staying in her dead end life was the right decision. You might have been especially excited about this one, but next time is one that I'm really looking forward to, with the objective greatest action star who ever lived. And I look forward to your '60s movies; James Bond is probably out, so what else could there be?

TokuBLWhovian

Maybe This Time is my favourite song from the musical/film. If anyone knows who Kristin Chenoweth is but hasn’t seen Glee, she does an amazing cover. Anyway, I don’t know how many musical films you have or haven’t seen but I’d love to see reactions to more.

Thomas Corp

Lovely to start the series and the year with a film you quite looked forward to, dark though it gets at spots. I quite like it myself. The film makes my top ten for 1972. It really should make my top five, but there are other films I happened to like more that year, hence it being ranked lower than it objectively should be. My thing of I rank my top ten lists by favorites rather than best, with occasional caveats of noting when something is objectively one of the better films of the year, even if I liked other films more. This one is one of the best of ‘72. It won eight out of its ten Oscar nominations; thus, it won the most Oscars that year. Which brings us to talking about how this is something of a sore spot amongst some film fans, given the competition, namely The Godfather, at said Oscars. More than half a century later, this still somewhat rankles certain film fans. I, myself, am a little more open-minded in that whilst not unsympathetic to that, I also recognize that it was a big year with two equally deserving films that you wish they were eligible for the Oscars in separate ceremonies. As it is, all of Cabaret’s wins were well-deserved. Bob Fosse knows how to sell a story. To quote Roger Ebert, “Bob Fosse has gone right to the bleak heart of the material and stayed there well enough to win an Academy Award for Best Director.” You spoke of the college experience with the dance. Fosse would be on the curriculum in a class about dance in college. Of course, there is our dear Liza Minnelli as Sally, and she too wins a well-deserved Oscar for this. You speak well of her character, and how she has this goal of becoming the famous actress, and is kind of in her own bubble, ignoring the rising problems of the world. More on that subject momentarily. Michael York is always good. My mom often speaks quite highly of him. Surprising to learn that you didn’t know that Joel Grey, treasure of theatre that he is, is in this, as the Master of Ceremonies tends to be his most famous role/what he’s best known for. He also won a well-deserved Oscar for this. The overarching strength of this, as you observed, is the juxtaposition of the cabaret and all of that, contrast to the rise of Nazi Germany. You mentioned how it might not suit a reaction going into this anticipating that. Considering the age of the show, combined with its fame, difficult to fully go into this completely blind. No, yeah, this whole story shines such a bright light on how people can just embrace the rise of a dictatorship, and dismiss, downplay, and delude oneself with the “Well, it’s not affecting me” mentality. It is striking how the elements of that escalate throughout the film. One of the biggest examples being the infamous scene of the song Tomorrow Belongs to Me. Very depressingly the song is rather popular with the neo-Nazi nitwits of the world. The song does have an insidiously catchy rhythm to it. Which incidentally works in the films favor if you go into it unaware of the song. For the very reasons you highlighted how it lulls you in as it has such a nice sounding melody being sung at this lovely outdoor location, then they pan down you see the swastika, and you feel like you just got plunged into ice water. A feeling made worse when the number of singers and fervor grows. Your horror at that scene was most powerful. And yes, it plays in contrast to the cabaret numbers, that are drenched in a cheaply painted artifice. A sort of decadence that, as described by Pauline Kael, “We see the decadence as garish and sleazy; yet we also see the animal energy in it. Everything seems to become sexualized.” Eventually the lines blur on that, leading to the number If You Could See Her which, like you said, you’re already uncomfortable, then they hit you with that line. Jesus was your reaction to that one of the most striking things, Jess. I started to shake when I saw it. In the middle of all that, is the sort of cute romance, pouncing notwithstanding. I think you’re meant to feel uncomfortable about said pouncing. Even for when this is set and when it was made, you are meant to be uncomfortable about the pouncing. Shame about the dog. That cry you let out when seeing the dog got me, and I said, “Yeah, I do apologize about that, Jess.” You also got me bad in the scene where we learn that Sally had the abortion. And ending on that note of Sally continues to chase after a dream. Dismissing the doom of the world by losing herself in the lights and lavishness of her dream of “chasing after the life of a headliner no matter what.” to again quote Pauline Kael. Closing on that haunting final shot. Some humorous spots of the reaction. When Max goes into the room at night. You say you’d punch him in the face for going into your room at night as he did. I’d say you’d be within your legal rights to kick him in the balls for doing some shit like what he did. Great how you note that blue is Brian’s color just before the sentiment is expressed in the film. the color does compliment Michael’s blue eyes rather well, so I agree. To speak of what kind of reaction this was, it was extraordinary. You observe correctly that it’s not the most animated reaction packed with such wow factor. But it is one of those reactions where we just experience and share the emotions, we take it all in, and just digest. Sometimes those are the better reactions, especially as they lead to you showing such keen insights. So, yeah, quite the start to the year. Thank you for the outstanding reaction, Jess.

Thomas Corp
>>159999503

This is one of those films and musicals that you have to let it come to you/you have to let it sit with you for a while, so I get the initial reaction that you say you had. There is also the thing you mentioned of how what was considered shocking back then may not translate well into today’s day and age. Like how Pinocchio presents a warning to parents about the caliber of disaster indicated by the presence of a pool table. How if there’s pool in town, parents need to watch for the telltale signs of corruption! For instance: The minute your son leaves the house, does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee? Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger? A dime-novel hidden in the corncrib? Is he starting to memorize jokes from Captain Billy’s Whiz-Bang? Are certain words creeping into his conversation? Words like “swell” and “so’s your old man”? If so my friends, ya got trouble! There is always the thing of making the effort to not look at it through today’s lens, and having one’s parents help sell, like you said your parents did, the context and response that was had upon the film’s release. And like you, and Jess noted the same, the reveal of Brian was sleeping with Max is probably meant to come across as far more scandalous than it comes across today. I know some productions actually do embrace the idea of the Master of Ceremonies being gay, and given the casting of Joel Grey, and years later Alan Cumming, one would just assume that to begin with. But yeah, far as we can tell, the character is straight here in the film. Liza Minnelli escaping the “nepo baby” label is very nice to see. Shame her career never quite hit the highs of this in the years hence, though she is very good in Arthur, which my mom adores that film. Joel is one of those actors you heard everybody build him up a lot, and you wondered what the fuss was about. Then you see him in stuff, recognize the talent, and especially seeing him in this, you think, “Ok, yeah, I get it.” Rather like how you never do see the Master of Ceremonies “off” as it were. The result being he feels more like a sort of symbolic figure in the show, and Joel sells it so beautifully. Like I mentioned, given the age and fame of the show, it is hard for anyone to go into it blind anymore. So, I was ok with Jess being on guard, so to speak. Not to mention that if one knows Fosse, you know he never exactly did cheerful. He made the great decision to cut the outside the club songs to have the realistic feel. Obviously retaining the Tomorrow Belongs to Me song as it so expertly sucker punches the audience. The choreography is definitely him. The influence of The Blue Angel is quite apparent. Speaking of Fosse, if you’ve never seen it, there’s the fantastic miniseries from 2019 called Fosse/Verdon starring Sam Rockwell being amazing as Fosse, and Michelle Williams being so absurdly magnificent as Gwen Verdon. I highly recommend it if you have not seen it. The tone of the ending does get misinterpreted a lot, and it was nice to see Jess see the ending for what it was. It doesn’t help that Liza performs the song with such passionate gusto. I’m looking forward to the remaining films in this series. Trying to predict the list of the sixties movies is a pretty tall order; there’s too much to narrow it down. Jess, I’m sure has some good ones planned, so I’m just looking forward to what those selections will be.

Ryan
>>159999503

New York New York now very much comes off as a proto-La La Land, which I've actually never cared for either, but if it had been more on that level of success I definitely think Liza would have had a much bigger career. Never heard of the miniseries, so I'll definitely check it out.

Ryan

Since there's not really any proper place to put it, I'll note here that Agatha All Along is now being listed as "Season 1" on Disney+, which would seem to be the final confirmation that Season 2 is coming. Also, it's now the one part of the MCU that Beau De Mayo is willing to admit is pretty good after his assholery got him fired from X-Men 97.

Thomas Corp
>>159999503

Still have not seen La La Land. New York, New York is one I do like and found to be good, if not necessarily one of Scorsese’s strongest films. Say it had gotten better positive attention, which I suspect was not helped by being between Taxi Driver and Raging Bull in Scorsese’s filmography, yeah, Liza would have had a bigger career. The miniseries was back in 2019, like I said. It aired on FX. Eight episodes. Sam and Michelle are SO amazing in it. I watched it with my mom when it aired, and we both loved it. It’s available on Disney+/Hulu. Hope you enjoy it if you get the chance to see it. I’d say Jess should react to it, though I don’t think it would get the most favorable numbers to justify that, hence why I’ve never suggested it before.

Thomas Corp
>>160007305

Here’s hoping for more beautiful wickedness of Agatha All Along. I got to tell my brother and sister in-law to get the lead out with watching the first season then if we are getting more. Though I have gotten them to start Arcane, and thus far, last I talked to them, they’ve gotten to act two of the first season, and they’re loving it. Still haven’t seen X-Men 97, nor heard anything about the assholery you mention.

Ryan
>>160007305

He was reported to do a lot of sexual harassment. He's currently suing Disney and saying it was actually because they didn't like the gay material he put in the show, which given certain other recent events would make me question it, except he was also fired from The Witcher for the exact same stuff.

Thomas Hartwell

One thing that I think that's interesting about "If You Could See Her" is the central punch of the song is often misunderstood--a lot of people assume it's straightly equivocating Jewish people with apes (and certainly I think that subtext is present), but there's a bit subtler of a point being made. If we look at the song sans ending line, the central joke ofc is that he's dating a gorilla and doesn't understand why people laugh at him--because in his eyes she's beautiful and perfect. So we assume the reason everyone is laughing at him is because, well, he's dating a gorilla. And then you get to the ending line and ofc the reveal is--ah no, no one has a problem with the gorilla. It's that she's *Jewish*. So the ending punch is simple: It's more acceptable to love a gorilla in 30s Germany than it is to love a Jew. This ties into what is an interesting thing about the Emcee as a character, is that he can be played so many different ways. Is he pro-Nazi? Anti-Nazi? Or an apolitical "let's all just have fun" person who just doesn't care? Whichever way you direct it will ultimately tie into the commentary you're making with the material, and I think why he's been played so successfully in so many different ways, from Grey in the stage version to Grey in the movie to Cumming in the 90s revival, etc. Absolutely fascinating character that speaks to the thematic complexity Cabaret presents.

Thomas McDonald

Ooh, something that might interest you after watching this. Matt Smith played the lead role in a BBC biopic drama called 'Christopher and His Kind' back in 2011. It's about Christopher Isherwood's experiences in Berlin in the 1930s, which inspired his books, which eventually became this. Slightly grim, but fun story that goes into more detail about Berlin's gay scene during the Weimar Republic and the early years of the Nazis taking control.

Thomas Joy

Paul Verhoeven, the director, actually says that his interpretation of the film is that he is lobotomised on earth at the end of the film and that it was a delusion. But also says that that is his opinion and it's up to people to decide what they think. Myself, logically, I too believe that it is a delusion. It's the same girl, Alien, Mars Secret Agent, "Blue Sky on Mars", there is just too much for it to be even conceivably real. However I pretend I don't know this and like the take it as being real 😭