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[Note: I have posted at a reasonable hour! A 2025 miracle! :) ]

Alden’s fingers sank into cool, dark mud that hadn’t been here the last time he’d fallen in this spot on the forest floor. He was breathing hard, face hot, and he felt another bead of sweat sliding down the bridge of his nose to drip onto the ground between his splayed hands. 

One end of the thin gray cord he’d been using as his tripwire was still wrapped around the leather cuff on his wrist. He could feel his auriad there, hidden underneath, loosening as his adrenaline from the last attack faded. 

The “hazard mimic” that Stuart had taken from the school for them to use as their pretend demon had gone down. But so did I.

The wedge-shaped shield he’d been holding as his second line of defense had blown a short distance away. It was made of an ultralight foam that caught the slightest of air currents when Alden wasn’t preserving it. Stuart was planning to let his ryeh-b’t play with it after they were through.

“Ow,” said Alden. “Wasn’t that one unfair?”

An invisible blow had struck him hard enough to send him flying. After the hazard mimic had fallen and from behind.

That one is why you should listen to me and fight from inside the car.” Stuart’s footsteps approached, and Alden looked up to see a hand being offered. It was covered in the rings Stuart had selected from a supply the school kept in a room full of magical teaching tools. They were dueling rings that had been made to introduce random flaws into the effects Stuart created when he activated them. So sometimes the ring that was supposed to make the soil shift under Alden’s feet created a large mud patch, and the one that hit him with nasty invisible blows could miss. 

Or weave around to get him from behind, apparently.

He shook his head. “Your hands are clean, and I’m gross.”

“Mud is so frightening,” Stuart said. “How will I ever recover if I get some on me?”

Beating Alden up slowly over the course of the past few hours had obviously been what the Primary’s son needed to unwind. Alden took the hand in his muddy one and let Stuart pull him up. 

To get to this place, they’d teleported from the school back to the siblinghold with all their supplies and then hiked. The trees were spread out a bit here, and there was enough space for the scenarios they were acting out. A half-grown tree had been assigned the role of the car a few times, and a pile of decaying leaves raked together by magic was often Kibby. 

Alden was uncomfortable with how easily leaves blew apart dramatically if he made a single mistake, but he was telling himself it was good for him to think about consequences.

Stuart usually stood over by a much larger tree while he was directing the hazard mimic with one hand and adding creative touches to its attacks with the dueling rings on the other. That tree also served as their discussion and regrouping spot. They headed over to it now. Alden drank from a pitcher of water that had tasted much better before Other Alden had shown up wearing her delivery harness and carrying a liver cleanser Stuart had ordered. Because he kept worrying over the consequences of a human liver being only okay instead of extra healthy for a day.

The ryeh-b’t was off amusing herself in the forest now because she didn’t like the hazard mimic. It was a kind of expandable, rubbery-surfaced polyhedron that was currently the size and weight of a bokabv. It was set to respond to Stuart’s direction, or to take initiative and charge or flee on its own depending on what Alden did to it.

Alden looked at where the mimic rested. The device had sent up a shower of dirt and careened off to the side after its impact with his tripwire. Which had been costly. He’d extended the line pretty far because Stuart was adamant that close engagement could not happen until the demon was weakened or unless Alden was working from within the car.

This was the first time they’d run through the tripwire scenario. And this result was no good.

“It was dead.” He was glaring at the mimic while he drank his bitter liver cleansing water. “It made the happy deadly injury chime.”

“I’ll show you what happened,” Stuart said. “Let me change out your break plates.”

Alden turned his back toward him and felt him tugging off some of the protective tiles that adhered to the black shirt and pants he was wearing. The clothes were flexible enough to move in, but too snug and much too hot. Not that he’d want to exchange them for something more comfy. This gear had been taken from the school, too. Some of the small tiles reduced impacts; others dulled magical effects. Together, they were ensuring that Alden only ended up with bruises instead of broken bones. 

The ones on top of his shoulders and around his neck were supposed to help protect his face. Stuart had said that if they didn’t, he’d just be teleported to a hospital.

“You know, for someone who’s so worried about me eating a little poisonous yovkew, you’re very willing to hit me hard with those rings.”

“I’m respecting your goals. Experiencing a poisoning isn’t one of them, is it?”

Alden liked that they were both in the kind of mood where joking around was happening. The morning hadn’t been what either of them expected, but the afternoon had been great for him, if they took the bruises out of the equation. And it didn’t feel like Stuart was bored either.

“Done,” said Stuart.

Alden turned to see him holding out a double handful of the protective tiles. Most of them were only cracked, but a few were in pieces. Stuart always showed off the damaged ones before adding them to the growing number in their trash basket.

“Do I need to pay the school for all of these?” Alden asked as he heard them all clatter into the basket. “I would.”

“There are several training facilities I have access to and would like to visit,” said Stuart. “Especially to practice the spell that I used to move the keda bean. I don’t visit them because people either annoy me or cut their own practice short when I’m there. So I think if I want to destroy some break plates and borrow some rings after all this time, then only a <<someone in need of shaming>> would bother me about it. And I would challenge their thinking.”  

“You’d tell them they were gokoratches.”

“I would ask them to explain their objection to me in detailed language and very slowly. So that I could hear them say why someone who has passed through the cottage of oaths can’t choose to use a few small tools.”

“That…would probably be a more appropriate reaction than calling them animal names.”

Stuart’s smile was self-satisfied.

“Is the cottage of oaths where you swear the oaths that are necessary for you to become a knight?”

“It’s the place where we prepare for them. In my household. Not everyone has a cottage for it. Before we can complete the oaths, we have to shape our understanding of what it means to be a Knight of the Mother Planet. We experience and contemplate a series of selected memories to do that.”

“Oh.” Before Alden could get a handle on that and ask follow-up questions, Stuart was beckoning him to look at one of the tablets that had been recording them.

“Here…this is when the demon hits your tripping string. And the contact does severely injure it. The hazard mimic stops coming toward you, and you’ve signaled me and gotten permission to preserve the wedge already. That’s good.”

Alden watched the mimic smash into the tripwire and then tumble over itself, the four points that made up its legs pointing briefly skyward as it flipped. “I have the second shield and use it fast because even when the demon is dead, the elevated chaos is still making things happen around it sometimes.” 

Having someone around to explain this kind of thing really was invaluable. 

“Yes. And this is one of those times.” Stuart let the video proceed.

Alden watched himself fly forward away from the “car” he was protecting. On the screen, he hit the ground.

“I cast a blow at the front of your shield,” Stuart told him. “Something to represent the way the demon’s presence might make reality behave as it dies. Or to represent any <<cast-off>>  part of it that might come toward you. The ring randomized the blow to hit you from behind instead.”

“Could that really happen?”

“A blow from the front, even after the bokabv has fallen a distance away, is somewhat likely. It’s a charging creature so there could be a…current to how the chaos is interacting with it that makes some kind of physical impact on you a possibility even if the main body of the demon doesn’t reach you. An impact from behind is unlikely in this scenario, though, I think.” He looked at Alden. “If I was trying to imagine the way this would go and controlling all of the spells according to my own envisioning, I wouldn’t have hit you this way. That’s why I’m using the rings. Chaos is unpredictable.”

“I’ll add something similar to this version of the dream, then.”

“You’re making your dream scenarios unrealistically difficult,” Stuart said mildly. “Not every one of them has to have an added danger on top of all the other dangers.”

“I want to know I didn’t cheat when it’s all over. I want to realize I’m strong enough to do it. Really strong enough.”

Stuart dropped the tablet, and it caught itself neatly on one edge. Alden had finally gotten used to seeing him do that, so he didn’t try to make a grab for it this time. Instead, he followed Stuart’s gaze, looking around the area they’d been working in. 

The signs of Alden’s brainstorming and Stuart’s casting were everywhere—several objects that had been used as shields, a small boulder that had been hurled at the hazard mimic, a large spot of loose soil from where Stuart had dug a pit trap with his auriad. Alden had wanted to try out a scenario where he baited the bokabv toward one.

“You can have sufficient ability and do everything perfectly and still fail because of circumstances,” Stuart said.

“I know.”

“Then…I think you should feel confidence in most of your plans already. The dreams where you use equipment taken from the lab in addition to your skill seem accurate to me. I think those plans would be effective and safe enough. If you don’t let Kivb-ee use quite as much explosive gel as she wants to in that one. Why does a child her age know how to make explosive gel?”

“She’s just trying to make sure her dream self contributes enough.”

Stuart didn’t ask for more details. “The scenario in which you’re lacking supplies, and the demon chooses to pursue the car, and you—for some reason—refuse to use the car itself as a weapon against it or a shield for your body…”

That was the one they’d just tried.

“I want the car to keep going,” said Alden. “If a demon stronger than the bugs runs into it, who knows what will break? We’d have to survive on foot for a lot longer, which would be hard.”

Stuart went quiet, eyes locked on the place where Alden had fallen. Alden didn’t say anything. He’d learned that a thoughtful expression on Stuart’s face was probably going to be followed by words he’d want to consider.

“At least cover your whole body with whatever you’re preserving after the demon hits your first defense. It’s <<silly>> to imagine your supplies will be so limited you can’t do that much.”

“You didn’t say that when you were shaping the foam into a wedge for me.”

“That’s because I thought you’d be using it with your back against the car or inside it.” Stuart tapped the two rings he used to modify the behavior of the mimic together a few times. “Your skill…it held well.”

“The mimic doesn’t have a cloud of real chaos around it.”

“No. But this time I had it release an amount of magical pressure equivalent to what I think you could expect from an encounter with such a demon. Because it fell over the tripping string, the encounter was brief, but you still held. And you could protect another object afterward. You are strong enough. You can trust that the dreams of success Healer Yenu gives you aren’t cheating.”

Alden had thought that hit was a lot harder than the others. Satisfying.

“Do you want to see me try my invisible claws now?” he asked.

“If you’re wearing those threads on your fingertips again—”

Alden held up his left hand and waved his fingers. 

Earlier, he’d been showing Stuart an example of the Meister weapon he’d seen yesterday with Natalie—the slicing filaments that extended from the fingertips. He hadn’t been serious about impaling a whole demonic bokabv with preserved spikes of thread that were only a few inches long.

“The demon will not notice when those tiny things stab into it, but you will notice when its giant body continues forward to shatter your fingers and then your wrist and then your arm and then the rest of you.”

“I realize that.”

“Then why do you keep showing it to me!?”

“Because your face was so funny the first time I said I wanted to try it.” Alden lowered his hand again. “Not joking anymore—I appreciate your advice and your knowledge so much. Do you really think most of these would be fine to share with Healer Yenu?”

“Yes. It’s obvious you’ve spent much time over the past days working on this.”

“I’ve been obsessed,” he admitted.

“You should imagine what pleasant things will happen when Healer Yenu has replaced the nightmare with these,” Stuart said. “That’s what I used to do when I was about to go to another meeting with her. I would think about how afterwards, I would be able to do something new or stop doing something old that I didn’t like.”

That’s simple advice, thought Alden. But it’s strangely easy to overlook when you fall into the process of fixing yourself.

“I bought the best, most highly recommended sleep things when I moved into my new room at Celena North,” he said after thinking for a minute. “The perfect sheets and a blanket that manages the bed temperature and a machine that makes peaceful sounds. It will be good to lie down and enjoy it all without thinking, ‘I hope it works tonight’ half the time.”

Stuart smiled, but it turned quickly worried. “Do you need peaceful sounds in the cottage to sleep well when you visit?”

“No. It’s—”

“And human bed coverings!”

“The cottage is very comfortable. I like sleeping there. Don’t change it for me.”

Stuart looked like a person who was planning to research white noise machines no matter what.

“Eat the other half of that apple you started earlier, or it will turn brown,” Alden said to distract him. “And then will you hit me again with that spell that knocked me down? I’ll shield as much of myself as possible this time. I want to see how strong it…if it makes me lose preservation.” 

A slip there. An Avowed probably shouldn’t be able to tell how strong a spell hitting their preserved object was unless the ability was a specific part of the skill they were using.

“It will turn brown? And that’s bad?” Stuart hurried toward the root where his snack had been left. “Why didn’t you tell me not to save this kind sooner?”

He chomped into the apple like he was afraid it was going to rot away any second.

******

Stuart had been amazing at pulling his blows and controlling the mimic all afternoon so that Alden got plenty of tries at each scenario without taking more than an instructive number of hard hits on body or shield. But not long after they started reenacting the last demon attack in slightly different ways, The Bearer of All Burdens was finally exhausted. Alden was disappointed when it happened, not only because this had been a valuable practice but also because they’d developed such a good task-focused camaraderie.

“That was all I had to give,” he said regretfully as he climbed back upright. The poncho he’d been preserving flapped around him, barely held together at the neck after being on the receiving end of a strike from the hazard mimic. Beneath the shredded plastic, the protective shirt was covered in cracked and broken tiles from reducing what was left of the impact.

“It was well done,” said Stuart. “You’ve learned that you can do what you want in the dreams, and you’ve built plenty of memories that Yenu-pezth can use to help her in her work.”

If Alden wasn’t imagining things, he sounded disappointed it was over, too.

While Stuart collapsed the mimic back into its portable starting size, Alden went over to their base of operations and took off the shirt so that he could remove all the break plates more easily. 

Broken ones in the trash, good ones in the carrying case.

He was delighted to find that it wasn’t actually a hundred degrees in this part of the forest, despite how he’d felt all afternoon. This safety suit had just been made for a species that liked way more insulation than him. For all I know, this is the winter version. Stuart had said it was the only size large enough for him at the school.

“This has someone’s name written on the inside in some kind of white stuff,” he said. “Do we need to set up a meeting so I can apologize to Okera-en?”

Noh-en’s relative?

Stuart looked back at him. “It’s probably written there humorously because Okera-en was once the only person in a class who it fit. Those clothes aren’t individual property. Students just take them as needed to go with the plates.”

Alden dropped a few more tiles into the trash. They clattered like plastic, and they didn’t weigh much more. 

“Worli Ro-den,” said Stuart, “…no. I’ve changed my mind. I apologize for speaking of him when our day has turned more forward-looking. Would you have a meal with me before you go back to Anesidora? We have meat petal.”

Alden was startled to have Ro-den brought up and then rejected as a conversation topic in the same sentence. He turned to see Stuart kicking leaves back over the dirt he’d dug up earlier. Alden wasn’t sure if putting the forest back the way they’d found it was important or if Stuart was being fake busy.

“I was going to be here awhile longer if you aren’t tired of my company. Meat petal would be delicious. I did plan to sleep on Earth, though, so that you don’t have to stay awake until the middle of your night to send me back for my classes tomorrow.”

“I don’t mind staying awake,” Stuart said immediately.

“Eventually, you will mind how inconvenient I am if I don’t try to minimize it. You already have to do bokabv chores because of me.” Alden peeled off the final tile and laid the shirt over the nearest root, then he reached for his messenger bag. It was stuffed with the clothes he’d changed out of earlier. “And if you want to say something about Ro-den, you should. I’m curious, and I promise not to ruin the rest of the day by telling you how much I hate him repeatedly.”

Stuart kicked a few more leaves before nodding to himself and walking over. “Maybe you will meet some wizards who behave improperly <<to your detriment>>. I hope not, but I’ve been disappointed by many people since I started studying at LeafSong, so maybe I hope for a little too much.”

Alden snorted. “Only a little?” 

He pulled his own cleaner, drier shirt over his head and belatedly realized that this conversation might have been kicked off by Stuart spotting his tattoo.

“But I do think the commendation makes your chance of being summoned for inappropriate jobs as small as an itz grain,” Stuart continued. “And I think your whole life—may it be long—may not bring you into contact with a second wizard who is much like Ro-den.”

He glanced at the spot where the tattoo had just been hidden, and then, for some reason, over at Alden’s bag. “Worli Ro-den is selfish, angry, and <<distressingly weird>>. I do not understand him well, and what I understand, I do not like at all.”

Stuart’s lifted chin and tone of condemnation somehow made the blunt language even more delightful than it would have been anyway, considering the subject. Alden was even pleased to hear that there was a word for distressing weirdness that sounded like someone was trying to say “eek” three times as fast as possible.

“I’m glad you gave me your perspective on how summoners might… probably, will…see the commendation,” Alden said. “And I have been wondering lately if I underestimated Ro-den’s selfishness by a little.”

Stuart’s lips tipped up. “Only a little?”

Alden groaned.

Having a partner for Ro-den put-downs wasn’t unenjoyable, but it did remind him of his most recent realization about the wizard. The one that made him feel like such an idiot, he didn’t want to ask. He decided to make himself, just to put it away once and for all, if that was even possible for him.

“You know how I went to Thegund to pick marleck berries,” he began.

Stuart lifted a hand and made a strange bouncy gesture with two fingers extended.

“What does that mean?” Alden asked, trying it himself. “I don’t know it.”

“It’s <<a comical character who appears in children’s stories, known for lying and then running away>> fleeing over the hills.” Stuart did it again.“It means I know you’re lying. But not in an upset way.”

“That’s a great one. So I was picking marleck berries, and Joe’s—Ro-den’s—lab happened to be nearby. And some of his assistants were trapped there by politics and the situation…and I guess…I’m wondering if Ro-den could have done something to get them all away from there. From Thegund.”

Stuart didn’t reply for a few seconds. Those few seconds were so long that Alden answered himself before he’d have to endure one more. 

“He could have. Of course. Unimportant people don’t get to teach at the second best wizard university on the Triplanets, do they? And only very important people would ever be allowed to do it as punishment for crimes. He’s important, isn’t he? He could have done something for them. If he wanted to badly enough.”

Couldn’t he have done something before me? Better than me. Faster than me. Something that wouldn’t have hurt me and killed them.

Stuart swallowed. “Oh. You understand a little less, or differently, than I assumed you…I guess there was no kind reason for Aunt Alis to explain everything if she…would you like a shower and meat petal first? We can go back to the cottage and then talk about it.”

“Are you going to tell me something horrible?”

“I don’t know. I think I need to tell you something that will hurt your feelings. And…bad news is better when you’re chewing. Veln Dad says that.”

Alden doubted Stuart could reveal information about Ro-den and Thegund that would hurt in a new way. It was already so shitty that there wasn’t room left for one more piece of crap to matter, and he felt like he was getting better at moving along.

But just in case…

Just in case.

“Tell me whatever you think the worst part of it will be for me,” he said. “Simple and fast.”

Hit me with it. “Then we’ll go chew on meat petal and talk about it more if I really have to.”

Stuart straightened and looked him in the eye. “The scientists Ro-den sent you to remove from Thegund could have easily called for a flyer and been taken to safety on the other side of the moon, to Chayklo, whenever they wanted. Before the corruption broke through. If Ro-den said otherwise, he lied.”

“No. There’s this corporation,” said Alden, “called Yipalck… ”

“They were the largest supporter for Ro-den’s research,” said Stuart. “He owed them a percentage of his <<official recognition>> for any discoveries. But as part of a battle he was having with members of the Grand Senate, Ro-den destroyed an invention of great scientific value and the records of how he created it. He wasn’t allowed to do that. There are expectations of people who research chaos, and new knowledge in that area is supposed to be made available to all members of the wizard class who are qualified to have it. 

“Ro-den thought that the reward he was going to receive was unfair, so he wanted to force the committee in charge of dealing with him into another negotiation. They weren’t happy. Instead of yielding, he…did some things to personally insult a couple of Grand Senators.”

Stuart stared off into space briefly, and Alden wondered if he was about to elaborate on Ro-den’s personal insults. 

“Ro-den jumped for the highest branch and hit his head on every lower one as he fell back down,” he said instead. “So he lost his lab. Yipalck was supposed to recover whatever information was possible without Ro-den’s help. He was ordered to give his assistants permission to tell the new owners what they’d been working on. Instead, he broke all of the secrecy contracts that protected the research they’d done over the past years completely, and told Yipalck to make new ones with everyone at the lab…if they could.”

Stuart said that last part in a “Can you believe it?” voice.

“Breaking the contracts was bad?” Alden asked. 

“The information his assistants had didn’t belong to them and Ro-den alone. And he was known for letting them be very involved in his studies. It wasn’t safe to just let them leave and tell whoever they liked how to build a new kind of artificial demon—that was what Ro-den claimed they’d done.”

Hello. What?

“I don’t know exactly what Ro-den’s reasons were. But it meant his assistants needed to be bargained with, and it took a long time, and the longer it took, the more opportunity he could find to change his situation. The most loyal ones were still there at the end.”

It was almost the same story Alden had been told. Just with a few more details, a slightly different point of view.

Yipalck won’t let us leave because we’re loyal to Ro-den and won’t agree to their contract like the others did. Yipalck won’t let us leave because we’re loyal to Ro-den and if we don’t agree to their contract…we can just go build some artificial demons in a garage somewhere?

Alden shook his head. “They wanted to get away from that lab. They did.”

They were scared. They were so glad I was there.

“They wanted to get away in a manner that gave their wizard the most control and <<leverage>> possible,” said Stuart. He took one step closer to Alden. “I think. I can’t truly know, and it’s not right to speak for them confidently. They were willing to take risks, and those risks would have gotten all of them killed. They didn’t deserve that. But you were asking if Ro-den could have gotten them out somehow, and I thought…it’s important for you to know that they only had to agree not to continue the research or share it in order to leave. As far as I know.”

“I see,” said Alden.

“And Ro-den could have just given up the information instead of trying to use it to bargain with the Grand Senate. And he could even have kept it and done other things if he was willing…he would have a lot to offer in an exchange of favors if he was less proud.”

“Thank you for telling me.” Alden felt more detached from the information than he would have weeks ago. Maybe it really was just too much disappointment already for it to get any worse. “What reward did Ro-den want so much he started a battle with the senate over it? If it’s not a secret.”

Stuart was watching him closely. “It’s not. He wanted them to give him a higher title. Because of the unusual worth of his discovery. He wanted <<Trimeritorious>>…a lot of people think he probably deserved it before he destroyed everything. The committee might have been <<stingy>>.”

For a title. And whatever power went with it I guess.

“I see,” Alden said again. He picked up his bag. “Let’s go eat meat petal.”

“Really?” 

“Can we cook it on a hot rock? That was fun.”

Stuart’s uncertain look began to fade. “I enjoyed that, too. Outside in front of the cottage?”

“Perfect,” said Alden.

A fucking title.

******

******

Next Chapter

Comments

the btrflyz

Awesome, early chapter! Thanks Sleyca

Jeremy Goldberg

Thank you for the chapter! Happy 2025!

Cole

Oh my god it's like the good old times when there was. 7 chapter backlog 🙏🙏

Tycho Green

What a pleasant surprise, didn’t expect a chapter before I go to sleep You really hit me with it!

Neal Mayne

Thank you for the chapter

JJ Hunter

*mooooOoooOooooes with delight*

Nathan

Thanks Sleyca! Right before I'm going to sleep 😴

Glitter Rabbit (C)

“Mud is so frightening,” Stuart said. “How will I ever recover if I get some on me?” I love this guy so much.

OldFishBoi

Thanks for the chapter.

jg

I've enjoyed every and any time you've posted! A nightshifters daywalking 2025 miracle!

Dundinho

Thanks for early chapter ❤️

Zero

big oof Alden must be feeling very negative. "a fucking title" indeed Thanks for the chapter Looking forward to what comes next

MrHrulgin

Wow, Joe was way more of an asshole than I had already thought.

SnuggleCat

Thank you! And yeah, that it was all for a title doesn't surprise me either, somehow. Great writing, I'm right there with our MC

Thomas Todd

Fucking Joe ........ He needs to be kicked squarely in the balls as hard as can possibly be done without killing him

Maddy Weller

Oof, that’s not great Joe. It’s really not great.

Alberto Muñiz

I don't really thing this new information changes things that much. We already knew or suspected that Ro-Den would have to burn favors in order to get his scientists out of there. It's not that he literally had no other way, other than Alden, but that he didn't want to and didn't expect the sudden chaos storm.

Clint

Woah! Thanks for the early chapter!

Austin

Man, screw Joe.

sempersciurus

I hope there's some reversal coming for roden. At this point, all of the new depths of his betrayal feel a bit like beating a dead horse to me. Maybe I'm just being hopeful, but it feels like the door is being left open with the way the scientists situation is described.

Kemlion

Tftc

Mac

Appreciate the great journey👏🏻👏🏻

Matt DiMeo

Joe needs a hazard mimic up the thermal exhaust port.

Michele Goulet

Thanks for the chapter, Sleyca. Always appreciate your amazing work!

Aspiring Moth

I think he probably wanted the title for a good reason. in the elders croak chapter, baby Joe seemed very pro Thegund and angry that people would just leave. maybe the title would give him the political power needed to make things better

Curtis

The thing that infuriates me the most is not Ro-den's action. It's Kibby's dad. He could have got his girls out of there whenever he wanted! He knew there was the risk of the chaos storms, and he chose to take that risk with two young children. What the fuck man? I really hope there is more to this story.

Tylena Simmonds

That's Sleyca for you. They're one of the only authors that can make me go "Man this guy is really entertaining. Really feel bad for his shit luck and the fallout he caught for it though." To "Holy shit this guy got off light, if I see him again I hope he gets punched in the face." Hindsight really does come into play here and all of Joes interactions make so much more sense now. I feel the worst for Kibby though, someones going to have to break the news to her.

BeepBoop

I think that the bigger thing it changes perspective on is the scientists rather than Ro-Den (at least mainly). Of course, we should be cautious there as Stu'Art'h admits he isn't quite sure what they were thinking. Not that these circumstances would make them bad people, just slightly differently motivated. It makes me feel weird about the one guy with kids, but that can be understood if one considers the chaos storm truly improbable (at least any time soon). Of course, even if not that we have to consider what sort of values people in this case society have and that is interesting. On Ro-Den it does make me think about the difference between risking your people due to unexpected political fallout and during an intentionally political battle. With the latter, the deaths among his people are all on him to an even greater extent than otherwise. It is understandable to try to get his people out with the least favors cashed if the expected risk is low, which it seems it was as he completely expected the Alden solution to cleanly handle things and was probably looking and waiting for such options. Yet, if this was a battle he chose where they all could have continued working together, just with less prestige and power than they would have hoped then even the slightest bit of risk becomes more questionable. I wouldn't mind if it was all loyal adults who understand the politics and want this, but there were children and thag is just always different.

Guus van der Borg

I mean, yeah it was all over a fucking title. ....buuuuuuut, from the other perspective, they still refused to evacuate people because they refused to tell them what they wanted to know. They still aren't exactly blameless here. Another way to put it is 'all these people had to do to be saved was sell out their principles.' Nooot exactly a minor stance to take imo. This 'revelation' changes exactly zilch about my view on the situation actually. We knew from the very beginning it was about Joe's (and his people's) pride vs Yipalck. This just gave it more, imo irrelevant, dressing.

Sashani

I dunno. I'm wondering if it wasn't about the title and Joe actually didn't want to turn over the artificial demon. It smacks of weapon research, and this is a nuke. What would happen if an artificial demon could be dumped in a non-chaosified world that didn't want a contract? Joe could be selfish enough that he only wanted the title. Or he used the title as an excuse not to turn the demon-weapon over.

Robert Mullins

"Why does a child her age know how to make explosive gel?" Time for Stu-art'h to get a proper introduction to our resident mad scientist, one alien heist job, rebel wizard training, elementary schooler of glory.

BeepBoop

He was very blunt about his people being was less well organized and thoughtful than they liked to project. Of course if that were so it would be weird to remove the contracts preventing his people from sharing the technology. Contracts don't just prevent sharing, but also sharing under coercion. The best method would have been to switch the contracts to one's that do not allow any relevant details to ever be shared with anyone under any circumstances and destroy all other evidence. Joe also did not seem concerned about his people being under imminent risk from their internal divisions. Rather, he thought that and the whole vowed thing would ruin them long term. It is an interesting idea though.

Young Youghurt

Alden my boy don't tell me you were that naive??? Almost anything is a question of money (power) and Worli "Joe" Rodent sure as hell wasn't poor at that time. It was obvious Alden was the cheapest way to achieve Rodents goals. Fed some scraps in the form of knowledge (that isn't much usefull on it's own). Have you heard the tragedy of Alden the bleeding heart? (Help Alden Thorn you are my only hope)

Poiuy

Fucking Ro-den.

the btrflyz

Alis mentioned the Primary being unhappy that Joe was removed from his position. With complicating issues and no perfect understanding of all of it, I'd use that as a decent barometer of what side was "correct"

BeepBoop

Stu'Art'h was careful to note that he cannot be sure about the scientists intentions and that line was probably put there intentionally by the author. It could be a hint.

Cyrus McEnnis

There's that Artonian Social Dynamic raising its gokoratchian head again. Alden believed Joe when he framed his issue in "heroic" terms. He, and in all honesty I, was so naive taking his word for it. Could it be actual shame that's making Joe behave the way he is with Alden? He played stupid games with people's lives, then hid the consequences as best he could once everything blew up on him. Then once proof in the shape of Alden & Kibby knocked on the door to expose it all... Man, all his manipulations just came crashing down around his ears & he got the inverse of what he wanted. And I can't help but wonder what's going to happen when Alden talks to the Primary and tells him _everything_ about that last session because *surely* he's satisfied the preconditions already....

Robert Mullins

Another thing to note about Joe is that he had at the least mild/grudging approval from the primary based on alis pov in 56 ` someone was in a tizzy about that giant explosion a few days ago at Worli Ro-den’s old facility. They wanted Alis to go and get proof that it had been an act of deliberate sabotage by the former owner. Something she had already decided not to do. She wasn’t that invested in Ro-den’s situation, but her brother had looked mildly unhappy when he told her the man had been pulled from Thegund. So she would just wait a while before turning her attention to it. `

JJ Hunter

"Yipalck was supposed to recover whatever information was possible without Ro-den’s help." I am so curious how this squares with Yipalck never sending in their own wizard representative to renew the lab protections and formally take ownership. Joe's remaining staff *did* request evacuation, but Yipalck only evacuated the ones who consented to new contracts. Why weren't Kibv-ee and her little sister unconditionally evacuated as likely too young to swear to their own contracts or act as full assistants in their own right? If some version of house arrest was warranted for Joe's remaining loyalists until they swore to some degree of secrecy, why didn't Yipalck evacuate them to a less endangered location and keep them confined there?

BeepBoop

That would make sense. If the title was his goal all along and everything else was meaningful then perhaps it would make sense in the moment to dig in if you are cheated out of it. If you don't get it now will you ever? If your people understand what you are fighting for and willingly participate (it is still disappointing children were also at risk) then why wouldn't they all put it on the line to make a difference. People have risked more for a cause.

Amber Gregory

I don't want to believe that's the whole story with Joe. I know he's a deeply problematic person, but... I guess even the caring things he did can be written off as cultivating a useful tool. I'm going to stubbornly and illogically insist that he didn't do all that just for a title, because I really, really liked him.

Young Youghurt

Would you use violence to remove people from their "home" who withheld intellectual property you partly own from you? Do Artonan corporations have right to forcibly evacuate unwilling?

puppy0cam

> new knowledge in that area is supposed to be made available to all members of the wizard class who are qualified to have it.  > “The information his assistants had didn’t belong to them and Ro-den alone. And he was known for letting them be very involved in his studies. It wasn’t safe to just let them leave and tell whoever they liked how to build a new kind of artificial demon—that was what Ro-den claimed they’d done.” So many people brought pettiness to the potluck that information that belongs to the public was withheld from release and made irrecoverable.

5haun

Thanks for the chapter Sleyca! That was really good. I wish there wasn’t so much slander for Joe. I know the ultimate outcome was bad… but I think Stuart’s interpretation is a bit skewed from his privileged position as the son of the most powerful Knight in the universe and coming from seemingly one of the most influential families historically on the Triplanets. 1. Joe and team apparently discovered/developed something really cool that would benefit literally all chaos researchers 2. Grand Senate wanted that information but refused to give out a proper reward, which even Stuart called stingy. 3. I think it’s established Joe is from Thegund - he’s probably not from an influential family, and wanted to be properly rewarded by the, most likely, historically influential families and individuals in the Grand Senate 4. Told the Senators off and that they could get the information they wanted from his team - a bunch of non-wizards that we know he did care about, if that one lady who was with Alden before finding Kibby and Joe’s treatment of Kibby is any measure 5. Allowed his workers to work out new, most likely profitable contracts for themselves, in order to leave Thegund and give the corporation the info they wanted. Because the workers weren’t getting the contracts they also thought they deserved, just like Joe, the negotiations were taking longer than expected 6. Joe still managed to find a way to get them out, albeit that ended in disaster, of course I think there was probably more reasons why Alis didn’t tell Alden completely what happened - because it was a highly political situation that probably involved the rights of the lower castes of Artonan society. I love Stuart, but I don’t think he’s a completely reliable source of information in this case. It’s also 100% a fact Joe could have saved everyone - but I think if he had, it would have been another instance of the established powers that be getting exactly what they wanted while not considering the little people. This is entirely up to interpretation, of course, since I don’t think we have the whole picture, still. It very well could be that Joe still used those non-wizards for his own gain, but even in that case I don’t think it’s as clear cut and dry as Stuart is making it out to be.

J Reynolds

All the more terrible if Stu is correct in thinking that Ro-den would have received the title anyway. In addition to pride, add impatience to Joe's faults. And criminal negligence to his crimes.

puppy0cam

it sounds to me that both yipalk and ro-den & company were at fault for this incident.

JJ Hunter

We're still missing important parts of the picture here, but oh, these new pieces do add some *interesting* connotations, don't they. The idea of an artificial demon, in the same afternoon as we are introduced to our first hazard mimic. Joe appearing to put fighting for a higher title over care for his loyal assistants' welfare. Alden feeling like yet another piece of his initial ground has been eroded out from under him *again*.

LadyFromCrystalRiver

They're becoming good friends. I wonder if Alden will help Stuart by bearing some of his burden when he becomes a knight (which may save his life). ...and if Mother knew there was a chance of that happening when she sent him to visit Stu initially.

Guus van der Borg

They wouldn't need to use violence if they didn't make giving the intellectual property a precondition to the saving of bloody lives. Lemme return that question to you, would you let someone get buried by an avalanche if they owed you money? Not a life-changing amount of money, but just a couple of twenties or so?

PlasmaticPi

I am gonna forget this chapter for the time being because it is way too obvious there is still more to the story that we aren't gonna get for a long time. Which is just stupidly frustrating to the point where if it keeps coming up without a resolution I'm gonna drop the series.

JJ Hunter

Amused that Stu thinks Ro-den gave Alden his favorite blue bag. It's not an unreasonable assumption on Stu's part - Alden had it with him when he first came to the siblinghold, and Stu likely knows his aunt Alis well enough to know the gift didn't come from her (she thought Alden was going to *die*, she wouldn't have given him false hope via physical gifts). The truth is even weirder than you think, Stu!

denatured

OK but why were the kids still there? WTF, Kibby's dad.

denatured

Yeah this is all begging for a rebuttal. At some point Joe's gotta have his say.

JJ Hunter

I bet Ro-den would have preferred that over having his higher titles and summoning rights fully stripped.

JJ Hunter

I wonder if continuing to restrict such information to all members *of the wizard class* who were qualified to have it was one of the points of contention - would qualified members of the non-wizard class like Joe's very capable assistants who contributed to the actual discovery be permitted access or opportunity to build on that initial discovery further?

denatured

They refused to evacuate them until they were under contract not to reveal how to artificially create a contagious cataclysm that threatens their whole society. I mean... legit? Aside from the kids, obviously.

Baines

I guess no one thought there would be raging chaos? It was just a normal business dispute until whoever sabotaged it

Llainway

Cheers!

Baines

I mean that was literally 'the' event of the series up until this point. Feels pretty natural.

denatured

He refused, multiple times, to allow Alden to take the girls. Maybe he was afraid they would become hostages to be used against him if he got separated from them.

Echo

New person I hate the most: Kibby’s dad

Matt V

Interesting to get more of the story behind Roden and the shenanigans going on in Thegund, though I doubt this is the whole story. Artificial demon creation doesn't sound like the greatest discovery to be spread around - could Joe have deleted the research to prevent it from spreading and was using the title as a smokescreen? Or maybe he had his own plans for the research that didn't align with the higher ups. Or maybe Joe really is just an egotistical asshole. Interesting that Stu claimed the assistants would have at least been able to relocate if they agreed not to continue the research or spread its knowledge. That they refused even that as their situation grew ever more dire makes me believe that there must be more to the story - either that or they really bought into Joe's cult of personality. They seemed truly loyal to Joe above all even to the end, so it's hard to say if there was more to it than that. In any case, it's nice to see Alden making such progress towards confronting his nightmares, and I'm hoping this really is the breakthrough it seems to be - in combination with the mind healer fixing his dreams. Would be nice to see Alden starting to leave his past trauma behind and looking more to the future. I'm curious if there will be any additional nightmares to confront with the newest trauma - maybe a fear of drowning? Crossing my fingers that Alden will actually be able to sleep peacefully going forward.

Baines

for sure Mother sent Alden to make friends in the hope he would provide an emotional bulwark regardless of his skill usage, but given how smart she is I'm sure having them work skills together was possibly on her mind, did Stuart already have his skill picked out when Alden first met Mother?

Guus van der Borg

Oh yeah... because if you've decided it's reasonable to detain them for that reason you don't do it in some secure and guarded location, you leave them alone to die to a disaster and/or escape from a place you aren't even monitoring anymore. /sarcasm

Baines

I think that's the best part, given you can see people being biased like this in real life, I love how natural relationship interactions are in this story.

Lucy Severine

Gonna throw my hat in the ring with the "still cautiously uncertain" people here. This feels like the sort of situation where, we have been armed with the right questions to force an answer out of Joe, but they are not answers in themselves: we won't truly be able to assess what the truth is until Joe is made to give his own side of the story, in full.

Middle ground

Now I feel sad for Kibby. How much does she know, how will Alden bring this up, and how betrayed will she feel when she hears it? Both Worli and her father made choices that cost the lives of her family, all for a title.

Armo

Thank you for the chapter! As long as Joe’s assistants knew the risk they were heading into and agreed with Joe’s reasons, I can’t blame Joe too much for driving a hard bargain. I do think Joe’s biggest mistake was insulting the Grand Senators in the first place. Somehow, I don’t think Alden will see the nuance here - he did suffer quite a bit as a result of Joe’s pride and political games.

denatured

I speculated about this for myself in another thread. He could have been worried they'd be used as hostages if he got separated from them. Still... maybe they would have been safe hostages.

Lucy Severine

Not saying from this that Joe ISN'T an asshole (he is) or ISN'T the bad guy (that's the part I'm unsure on). Just that my mind isn't fully made up on what actually happened.

Unknown

Joe genuinely tried to kill Alden. That must be considered as well.

Baines

honestly I'd be fine either way, sometimes people we want to like are trash and sometimes we attribute wrong reasons to a person's behavior

denatured

Probably the kids could have gone, but their dad didn't allow it.

Amber Gregory

True enough. I will not be mad to find I should have been more cynical, just sad

JennP

Wow. Kibby's dad could have so easily saved his family's lives... but didn't. I'm not sure that Kibby shouldn't be told all of this some day. She still trusts Joe too much. But wow

JJ Hunter

Did Stu get this version of the story from his Leafsong classmates, likely children and relatives of the same Grand Senate whose committee just had such an embarrassing breakdown in negotiations with Worli Ro-den that a major scientific invention was ultimately destroyed along with all records of its creation? Were any of those classmates relatives of the Yipalck owners and inventors? Those are not exactly unbiased sources - I wonder how practiced Stu actually is yet in teasing out biases and political jockeying. Such an interesting contrast with the Primary apparently being perceptibly mildly unhappy that Ro-den was removed from his lab. I can't see Jeneth-art'h having that reaction without a sense that fairness in this case did not warrant Ro-den's removal from his lab.

puppy0cam

> Why does a child her age know how to make explosive gel?” He's starting to clue in...

denatured

There's still a lot to learn about chaos, wizard politics, knights. It can't be all wishes and roses at the upper echelons of a multi-dimensional power. At some point Alden's gotta get a bit cynical. Joe is like an appetizer for the main course.

Unknown

Lol Sleyka, we appreciate it whatever time you post it, though the evening and not morning is prefered.

Eva

Well I don't think the physical practice hit as hard as the facts about Joe here

LadyFromCrystalRiver

He may not have finalized the skill selection but from his school journals, he must have had a general idea for a long time.

JennP

Joe allowed his workers to die. Joe manipulated a newly-avowed human teenager to risk his life. All for ego and greed. Whatever Joe's upbringing, he wasn't poor or without considerable social standing when he did those things.

JennP

But Kibby's dad was at fault for what he allowed to happen to his children

JennP

I can respect your honesty. It's really self-aware. It's good that you'll never meet Joe, though, he could convince you to do all kinds of things...

JJ Hunter

@Young Youghurt, Ro-den's people requested their own evacuation - no violence was needed to remove them, the violence done was in refusing to let them board the corporation rescue ship without contracting first to less generous terms than their prior contract and then burying their evacuation priority for governmental rescue until it was too late. Yipalck absolutely could have evacuated them into another version of house arrest somewhere that didn't have an impending chaos breakthrough. If their knowledge was so dangerous that they had to be contracted to either work with Yipalck or secrecy, house arrest during negotiations is a reasonable safeguard until terms are agreed on. Contract your labor or die a horrible death is not a reasonable basis for negotiation in any civil society worthy of that adjective.

JennP

It's not shame making Joe act that way. He's afraid of what Stu's family might do to him if he keeps screwing with Alden. Not to say he might not feel some shame or regret about what happened to other people, and not just about what he's perceived as happening to himself

Memoryofgold

Great chapter! Others might roll their eyes with the sentiment that we already know Joe is a shitty person but I'm more interested with how this changes Alden's decisions in the future. Right now on royalroad it says that Alden has a goal of being a battlefield support hero but right now it seems like he wants to avoid it, in fact learning all this seems demoralizing. I look forward to future developmemt!

David Kanevsky

Mother gave it to him as a congratulations u survived an emergency teleport present in addition to a quiet rabbit and pro-level mental texting skills

DAK

We’re just glad she didn’t hook up the extra generators to it this time

JJ Hunter

@Polaris, Alden got it as one of his post-affixation gifts from Mother! Amusingly stashed in the Wardrobe section of his interface under the 'For Alden' tab and depicted as one of two presents in Christmas wrapping paper (description: "A Gift"). 62: "It made him smile. 'I definitely want a gift.' "A moment after he’d spoken, something was teleported onto the tree root beside him. It was a messenger bag, about the same size as the one he’d had back home, but this one was made of a dark blue fabric that matched the auriad, minus the iridescent quality. He picked it up curiously. The fabric was soft, and it had a round silver medallion attached to the clasp that sparkled faintly when his hand approached it."

denatured

With you on this. But it's going to be hard for Alden. He's been very credulous so far, first with Joe but now, yet again, with Stu. I don't think Stu is lying to him because I don't think Stu has access to the full story. But Alden has aligned himself with the Art'h family and digging for info when they tell him the "facts" will be hard to do. It might not even occur to Alden for a while that there's more to the story.

Lucy Severine

One thing I will say for Alden is, he doesn't overlook chances to get information. He's made his peace with the situation for now, but I don't think that means that, if he's ever given the opportunity, he won't press Joe very hard.

JJ Hunter

@denatured, I have a hard time believing Kibv-ee's dad chose a path he thought put his kids' safety at greater risk; he cared *so much* about his kids. Didn't they all think they were going to get a second ship showing up from the government to evacuate them if Yipalck refused to?

Melody Haren Anderson

Like, he was trying to be heroic, he WAS there for the right reasons... but those reasons were built on a tower of lies, when Joe claimed it was solid ground. It both honestly makes their society seem a lot better, since it always felt... very cruel they were left there... but this makes it make sense.

Kthryn C

No we nder Ro-den carries extra food in his pockets: Every time he walks into the cafeteria a dozen of the most hard-core lifelong Academics in the universe pounce him to demand he publish his breakthrough!

ashsalt

I'm not seeing anyone talking about how this is the first we've learned about secrecy contracts (i.e. tattoos) being able to be broken. could alden convince joe to break his down the line?

DAK

“he…did some things to personally insult a couple of Grand Senators.” Aww, he didn’t sleep with that senator’s wife for true love? Add seduction to Joe’s resume. And does this mean he made sure the affair was found out as publicly as possible? Gross, dude. Hope she was cool with it at least.

Sam

You know, when Alden's wizardness becomes public knowledge, it would be very easy for people to draw the conclusion that Roden was actually conducting some wildly illegal and secret experiment to create artificial wizards and knights. I imagine the hysteria around that would be part of the level 99 intensity.

JJ Hunter

"Before we can complete the oaths, we have to shape our understanding of what it means to be a Knight of the Mother Planet. We experience and contemplate a series of selected memories to do that.” Mother had Alden contemplate Stu's memory of his first time seeing hn'tyons formally seek their rest to start Alden's choosing season. Mother also shared a portion of Esh and Lind confronting the obliterating mountain of water with Alden. Is Mother gradually building a cottage of oaths' experience for Alden one memory at a time?

Robert Mullins

One was of the pain he'll bear and the likely future waiting for him if he doesn't die in battle. The other was of the strength that painful burden will bring him if he sticks it out. If they really are meant to be on theme then I wonder what the next one will be...

Gregory

Hmm, the process to create this artificial demon presumably doesn't require wizard ability, since Joe's assistants weren't wizards. Which does suggest that all of the rules around this are set up to enforce the class divide. Alden is unlikely to notice the incredibly contradictory stance on information that Stu just gave because, well, he's busy being filled with rage.

Robert Mullins

Alden could easily share his secret with the primary without breaking the contract. In fact, endless misery on the horizon seems like an apt description of being affixed with authority sense so may not even have to reveal his own to do so.

SinCinnamon

So believable it’s truly sad

DAK

Mr. -ee (hmmm) getting a lot of flack here, which seems deserved on first pass. I certainly blame him, but I’m a human. It’s clear that Joe fights dirty, is a genius and is petty—but the same for the Grand Senate and Yiplack. And Kivb-ee’s dad was not a wizard, was given unusual responsibility and privilege by Joe and there’s no way for me to say as a non wizard how far his fall would be if he abandoned Joe. Is he potentially going from elite-well educated operations manager/scientist to unemployable, colluded-against, bankrupted non wizard with 2 kids he can’t feed, or just to comfortable job that sucks? And that’s not taking into account that this might have been a galaxy shaking super-weapon they decided to bury at all cost. Probably not. But maybe.

Josh

I don’t think this is the first time. Lute screamed at his mother to get his grandmother to break the chainer contract, implying it could be done.

PatienceHoney

I agree with the first part of your comment, in that I am just going to put the new perspective/ information into the Joe soup pot that sits simmering on one of the back burners in my mind and not think on it too hard for a while. But I don't think I could give up this story. I am on board for the ride Sleyca is taking us on. I just have to keep reminding myself not to anticipate her too much, because I begin to feel frustrated.

MWF

So messy politics, as previously hinted at. I still don't get how they couldn't relocate the lab assistants to somewhere else even without a revised nondisclosure agreement. I guess the assumption was that if a chaos event started somewhere nearby they should've had enough time to call the plane before it reached them? But that's such a poorly thought out exit strategy. How hard would it have been to just borrow some wizard's fancy mansion, evacuate them all to there and say "look, you're not leaving here until we have some kind of agreement in place but at least you won't die of chaos here"? There had to be a safer detention location. I get that nobody really intended to force them to choose between their lives and their loyalty to Joe but that's still what happened. Also kinda makes me wonder what did happen to the lab assistants that Alden smuggled off the moon. Did they get a big pay day since they were free and at large on Artona III and people got desperate to get them back until contract? Did they get hunted down and bullied into new contracts? There's some odd caste stuff going on here I don't understand.

Joel Wells

I’m torn about the revelations regarding Joe. I’ve really enjoyed his character and haven’t understood the distain the Knights have had against him. This new info makes me look at him in a whole new negative light.

denatured

@JJ I've put this speculation in a bunch of threads now but I'm guessing Kibby's dad thought they'd be used as hostages if he let them go. He might have thought they were safer with him. Or he might have allowed them to be at risk to avoid a hostage situation that disadvantaged him, while misjudging the amount of risk. Parents can be flawed. They can love their kids and make cruddy decisions about their safety anyway.

Sunden

I wonder if the reason Stuart looked from Alden's tattoo to Alden's bag is because he assumed the bag was something Joe gave him as part of the contract? We've had a few mentions of Artonans taking notice of Alden's messenger bag. Perhaps it's more unusual than Alden is assuming.

denatured

Great take. You're right. We don't know what he thought their future looked like if he gave in. Maybe he thought the prospects kept getting worse so he threw good money after bad, holding out for Joe to save his bacon. And we know what the hazard turned out to be, but not how he judged the risk.

PatienceHoney

Where did the chapter mention that Stu thinks Ro-den gave Alden his blue bag? I saw the passage where Stu glanced at the tattoo and (weirdly) the bag. Was that the passage? I have noticed that many wizards look at the bag in curiosity. Bit, I don't think their curiosity has been explained.

denatured

I still STILL cannot conceive of him as a playboy. Mayo. Crab. Pockets.

denatured

Is breaking maybe not the best word? We've seen contracts be amended, and we've seen them completed. It seems logical that a contract can be amended to be considered completed.

denatured

Now that I think about it, we've seen contracts that compel silence, but does Alden's compel speech? Does he HAVE to tell the Primary about the iced tea conversation when Joe's ambiguous condition is satisfied?

Robert Mullins

The one thing that was clear. Is the chaos storm broke out well before reasonable expectations would have placed it. Joe knew there was 'a' risk. But considered it a small one when he sent Alden. If he genuinely thought Alden was likely to die or get stuck he never would send him.

JJ Hunter

@PatienceHoney, I was extrapolating from that "He glanced at the spot where the tattoo had just been hidden, and then, for some reason, over at Alden’s bag" line, but given Alden had just realized Stu likely brought up Worli Ro-den at all because he saw Alden's tattoo, and then Alden clocked Stu staring directly at his now-hidden tattoo location and then Alden's messenger bag, it's clear Stu likely thinks Ro-den is responsible for both. (Does Stu think the *messenger bag* was Alden's reward for doing Ro-den's Thegund sidequest? We know it's a magic bag, and not just because of its authority-pricking security measures - remember how water-resistant it was when Alden had it submerged during the Submerger event?)

Frozen

Definitely feeling the second hand anger there, well written! I wonder if there is a third layer where Joe actually needs the title for something important. I feel like if I were Alden I'd be reaching for that possibility a little bit.

Zachary Sloan

My feeling about it is that it actually *is* about as bad as it sounds, but that what happened likely had a bigger impact on Joe than we've seen (and that Joe's realization about the consequences of his actions contributes to why he doesn't want to be involved with Alden). I think that Joe previously probably had a mindset where he was just willing to overlook the risk because everything had gone fine up until that point, and this ended up being a rude awakening for him. Edit: Also there's absolutely some sort of Important Plot Stuff going on with whatever research Joe was doing

PatienceHoney

@JJ Hunter That makes sense. I wonder if the bag is obviously a "wizard" bag to those in the know.

Jeffrey

@denatured Great, now I cant stop thinking about a horror scenario for poor Alden.... He hasn't talked to the Primary since the Ro-den contract's terms *may* have been fulfilled (affixation pain being "endless misery on the horizon"). I doubt this will happen, but imagine Alden's horror if the next time he has a chance to talk to the Primary alone he is forced to tell his secret/skill name. Extra horror if he is forced to in a similar way to casting a spell - robotlike and lacking any control of his body.

JJR Killjoy

We knew he was selfish and arrogant, but this just looks like a temper tantrum from someone pampered who was never told "no" before. One that got people killed. People he was responsible for. People who were beyond loyal to him. His fall from grace and general distaste other wizards have for him seems almost mild now.

J Reynolds

> robotlike and lacking any control of his body. That Joe, compelling this! What a lovable scamp!

Zachary Sloan

I feel like the reality is more complex than most people are implying. It's not like the only options are "Joe is good" and "Joe is a sociopath who manipulated people out of pure greed." I think it's more likely that Joe's life up until that point had just encouraged him to to take risks, and he just assumed everything would go okay. He obviously genuinely likes Alden, and I think that's part of why he's refusing contact with him now - this whole incident was a rude awakening and he understands his responsibility for it. There's also obviously some sort of missing context involving whatever research he was doing, and I imagine it will be a long time until we learn more about that.

Pete

I don't think he said that? Unless I missed a passage he just said that some think he should have been given the title not that he would have gotten it.

Robert Mullins

It looks like Alden is ready for his meeting with Yenu now and has the confidence to take on the demon and at least escape. I hope we get to see the full dream, though it may need to be a 2-3 parter. I'm also curious if Yenu will bring up the comment about him rather choosing to die than reveal he hesitated to go save her from the car. And, I wonder how the dream will handle the Auriad. Will it be conspicuously absent? Even more conspicuously present? Will Alden shift the dream to include it?

denatured

I'm trying to imagine the US government response to nuclear researchers ripping up their contracts and threatening to spill all their secrets if their boss's demand for more power and recognition wasn't met. House arrest seems... mild. Even the chaos researchers in the chaos field were caught off guard by the chaos. Expecting the Artonan Senate to be better informed is unrealistic. If none of them understood the immediacy and magnitude of the disaster, can they be blamed for its effects?

puppy0cam

what would have prevented the lab assistants from taking the car and... just leaving? if yipalk was trying to coerce them into a contract to prevent them from sharing the information why couldn't the ones who stayed have driven to the nearest city in the half of the moon protected from chaos weeks before the storm started? I would imagine that there wouldn't have been much left to do at the lab while ro-den was "incarcerated" at leafsong given there was no wizard available to use the magic equipment. It would have even put them into a stronger negotiating position with the time pressure of them potentially reaching the city and blabbing to all sorts of people about the wonderful research into chaos they assisted with.

Frozen

Also, Thenn-arr didn't react to the disaster like it was just for a title? I think she would have been a lot more angry if she thought it was for something trivial.

Pete

So a bunch of wizard's are automatically entitled to know it presumably without each getting a new secrecy contract and his assistants (who presumably are also seasoned chaos researchers just not wizard ones) need to be coerced into contracts? Feels a bit weird, but I guess wizards are distinctly the upper class so probably not surprising.

Colton

I'm still team Joe. During the Elder's croak story, he came off as someone who would want to care for others. There's most likely a REASON he wanted that title. Just bad luck in regards to the fucking primary having to cut a big ol demon in half. A good question that the ch discusses... How are demons made?

Tim Gonsalves

If I ever earn a title for doing something superlative, I want for it to be, “A Fucking Title,” in honor of this chapter.

MatrixM

Oh....that's actually not bad. So the people who were there on Thegund chose to stay there and risk their lives, and had even more choice than I thought they did. That's fine. This actually makes me feel a bit better about Joe...and there's obviously more to the story because things still don't make sense. I guess I need. Lot more information on artonan politics and social hierarchy and the research in question etc. But yeah, I'm feeling better about this. I wonder if Alden will as well at some point.

puppy0cam

she also had Alden contemplate some of his own memories. Specifically about his experience with the affixation.

NomiNomi

They stayed because they believed in Joe, and believed he was owed a better title for the work he, and they did. The ones that stayed were probably his most loyal subordinates and followers. Tragic what their loyalty led them to.

MatrixM

It sounds like the opposite. He earned the title but was being denied it, so he insisted

BeepBoop

Maybe she didn't consider it trivial? Though I do agree that the situation is probably more complicated than what Stu'Art'h knows. Joe always presented as a unique, complicated, and morally grey character rather than the more one-dimensional portrayal of recently. We have been learning a lot more about what makes him questionable and being pushed to consider that point of view, but there are more endearing aspects of his character that we have yet to have the opportunity to truly explore as well as more mysteries and backstory. Perhaps he is as bad as he has been being presented but also something else too?

BeepBoop

Maybe if they stayed in the lab or are with Ro-Den they would be protected to some extent, but if they left for a random city the corporation would be seen as justified in taking more drastic actions which Ro-Den couldn't call in favors to prevent without worsening his position in the push and pull over the title issue.

BeepBoop

Alden is the sort of mature and thoughtful person that would consider that, but he was in that position with Joe for a while, being willing to defend Joe to himself and others. In the end he might have leaned too far that way at first, but when he felt that Joe personally betrayed him he started leaning the other way. He has rarely felt so strongly betrayed in his life and he feels the need to correct (perhaps overcorrect) for his usual attitude that allowed Joe to endear himself to him.

Jeremy Goldberg

I’m team Not Joe (NoJoe? Noe?) Maybe the situation was more complicated than Stu knows, but at the end of the day, Joe still deceived a 15 year old child and tricked him into putting his life at risk unnecessarily. I think Joe is quirky and charming and really fun to read about, and also evil.

Andrew Khitry

Ah, the Older Croak tale here, at last. Joe is literally second brother, refusing to share information till properly recognized. And yes, why should we remember his name?

Christopher Ward

So I just want to first say congrats this is the first post i made on any story i started on RR and then this is the only story i patreon too cause your writing is amazing so thank you for the story. Now for why i am posting you have created a character i hate too the bone because he risked the life of his subordinates and their kids for a titled. That made me furious and the fact that you could create that much emotion in me and like the main character enough to be out raged on his behalf deserves recognition so bravo i love your story and hope for more lots of chapters in the future .

Jason Harpster

.....his only Title of Note or Worth ....... EXTREMELY NAUGHTY WIZARD.

Sky23

So what I’m hearing is that Joe manipulated a teenager and exploited the power dynamic to get him to do something that was illegal. And when the literal 15-year-old child did as he was told, he was put into extreme danger, could’ve died, got traumatized, all of that for him to not even be worth Joe having a genuine conversation with when he finally got back from this life altering experience. this kid is scarred and will never be the same. And a number of people, including an innocent child, our dead, just because an already powerful man didn’t feel he got the ass pats he deserved. all of this for a title. Congratulations, you’ve made an excellent villain. I hate this man with my entire being.

MelRein H

Interesting reading the split opinions on Joe. I like one of the commenter's mentioning the elder croak. He is the brother who had all the power but used it selfishly. Its incredibly clear though in Joe's last encounter with Alden that he is keeping everyone he cares about away from himself. He has the bad habit of always reaching for one more prize. That's how things get broken. Also while Alden certainly doesn't give a damn a about the power of a title and definitely hates even Joe even more for this. I think it's safe to say that a "title" holds ALOT of weight in artonan culture. Just look at Aldens title. If Joe got a similar level one well... he certainly would have a lot of power. Nevertheless there was a level of selfishness to it. The loyalists took the risk sure, but if Joe really cared, as Stuart said, he could've just revealed the info himself to get the last ones off. Then again, that could also be seen as a betrayal for his most loyal followers. I do think there's a little more to it than what Stuart has. But it'll still hinge on Joes selfishness.

Jose Oxrim

Stu did say it was a title he probably deserved. From what we understand of how much of an issue chaos is, it most definitely was deserved. And he was being shortchanged. Its selfish to destroy an invention profitable for society. But, is it not as bad to steal someones research? From outside, roden is selfish, but personally, i think i understand. Its like asking for the rich to be taxed more. They put in more work to get to the position they are in((i would hope)ideally)) They dont develop companies for charity.

Jose Oxrim

Not a fan of ol joe though. Although my own nature tells me id try to screw over someone trying to do that to me. He went about it in a way that got random innocent and friend researchers ended. Surely he could’ve kept the smear campaign at a higher level where it originated. Ideally i guess would be if he rolled over and did his research as charity instead of profit.

Jose Oxrim

I definitely think he could have followed commands and lobbied for title after. Surely his possible future achievements would have tipped the scale in his favor.

Jose Oxrim

Thank you for the chapter sleyca! A merry new year to you. May everything you need work out in your favor.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

A boring month for Sleyca is so-o-o good for us 😀 Amazing how her writing is so suggestive that it prompted my theory crafting about Joe right in the previous chapter, just by using a catchphrase. That post is too big to repeat so read it there if you wish. I think it explains many of the speculations here. Of course, the details are much more perfect in the author's head and in her voice...

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Don't forget the lab was rigged [edit: and monitored]. For good reasons too, if it held the Artonan equivalent of an atom bomb. [edit 2: Having it manned is a third layer of protection. ]

Jeremy Goldberg

Man, what a quiet Rabbit! Giving a future knight an in-depth demonstration of his anti-demon prowess! Also, I’m looking forward to Alden defeating Winston with his new *wolverine claws*

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Plus one on staying on team Joe. After all, he faced Trash-nor and the likes of him without giving in. Good to know I called it right last chapter on the importance of his discovery as part of the puzzle. It is even more vital than I imagined though.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Not likely, binding all potential users on such a sensitive topic amounts to the same magical effort - or even more - than enforcing the respectful silence. Who would pay it and how would this reflect their society and Contracts?

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Agree. For [edit: Then-arr and probably the rest of them], it was personal. There was at least a camaraderie she shared with Joe, and a clear common cause.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Also, given the information in this chapter, I call that the demon they made was indeed a bokabv herd mother. As for why she was at large, there might have been several scenarios: 1) She was too big for the lab vault's magical strenght and maybe not responding to / breaking the enchantments on interesting sticks, so uncontainable 2) She escaped and Yipalck underestimated the danger / decided to keep her at large in the hope to reverse engineer how she was created. Which let her to demonize the grasshoppers as a vector to cause the chaos outbreak.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

And maybe the fall-out with the Senate was over research funding to build a bigger and stronger vault. Which Joe's new title would facilitate.

Flying Goat

Frankly, I feel he eekceeds that, and falls well into eekeekeekeek territory, at least.

Matt

There's a whole bunch of Yipalck Corporation sympathizers in these comments. I for one support the right of Artonan science lab laborers to collectively choose to individually negotiate magical contracts. Their main sin seems to have been a massive error in risk estimation though presumably everyone made the same error in assuming that there would be more opportunities for rescue prior to a complete system collapse. Getting kids involved in a labor dispute about your boss's social standing seems pretty abhorrent at first glance, but in a society where your boss's social standing directly determines his capacity for summoning a superhero that can (as an arbitrary example) evacuate your family from a chaos-infested region like the one your family already lives in it is perhaps more justifiable. [In the interest of not starting an unnecessarily vitriolic comment thread here, I'll note that some parts of this comment may be facetious if that wasn't clear from the tone. In the interest of being a bit of a shit disturber, I refuse to elaborate on how much of this comment is fully serious.]

FeathersFavoriteNYC

This Alden-centric view loses the big picture so the surface is not even scratched. If Joe was the Artonan Oppenheimer and someone wanted to open source the making of an atomic bomb, I can see why he and the most ethical and steadfast of his assistants would oppose it. At the freely selected cost of their lives. And protecting Alden by contracting him, as proof that whatever laws he broke, were broken under orders while on assignment by a powerful wizard.

Super Super Supportive Supporter

Soooo demon lore!!! What could artificial demons be used for, why would they *want* to create demons? Previously I had thought that when someone said that any high level wizard consorted with demons, they meant demonified wizards like that mind wizard that led to Stu’s mom’s death… On second thought I still think that. And that demonified wizards are just the next step in power for wizards who don’t want to be a knight. After all, the fact that some regularly consort with demons implies that some demons are allowed to continue existing, maybe the knights only kill the ones that do evil stuff. And so artificial demons are a safer way for wizards to get that next step. That’s my theory for now!

Elinar Godly

Wow wow wow, hold your horses. I dont pay attention to this stuff and I am not big on gossip but is Sleyca a female? I thought it was a guy... No idea why Still, curious and would be grateful if someone confirmed.

Sky23

That doesn’t make it OK to put a child in danger, even if it’s culturally acceptable in this world. But you’re entitled to your opinion as I am to mine :-)

WC

Maybe they have a blanket contract that covers everything received thru their access level?

SkySeeker

Wow. The more we learn, the more questions I have. The Ro-den arc really is a prime example of why I consider this story to be so well written. The reactions in the comments over time demonstrate with sharp clarity how people looking at the exact same information can draw radically different conclusions about a situation. Furthermore, it is very clearly (to me anyway) not a matter of one side being right and the other side being dumb. The opinions I have seen are (for the most part) completely reasonable and natural conclusions to draw from the story we have been presented. The thing is, that is how real life works. Good, decent, reasonable, intelligent, and observant people can look at the same world events and make entirely different judgments about what they mean. The fact that this story has successfully replicated this effect is, in my view, a strong testament to the depth of understanding of the complexities of reality that Sleyca has woven into this fictional world. Bravo, author. Bravo.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Funny, isn't it, how we all read the same story but see different messages from the breadcrumbs Sleyca threw in it. Which proves that life in Sleycaverse has many paths, just like ours. While fables are binary because they emphasise a single idea of what's good and what's evil. Also, great reminder on the importance of titles. They are not just important but elevating. And certainly go with a lot of available resources that can be used, for example, for a different scale of chaos research. Last but not least, kudos to Sleyca on the use of incomplete character knowledge to direct - or misdirect? the readers. The way in which every character's knowledge at a given moment influences their views is so lifelike it's a chef's kiss.

Guindolin

It sounds like Joe threatened to let his employees open source it if he didn’t get his title. He left them there in peril as pawns to get his way.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Seconded. We even get to see the characters' biases and prejudices so clearly. And the way withholding information shapes their views and choices.

Sky23

Yup. A little girl and people who idolized him died horrible deaths for his selfish interests.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

It looks to me like typical research, with its limited view on how things work. People believe they can control an experiment's environment for the sake of learning - in this case, how to reverse chaos, I presume. Then life shows that they didn't know of, couldn't control or neglected to consider a few parameters and BOOM... Remember the "absolute security" of Jurassic Park (the book)?

MWF

As Team I'm-still-on-the-fence-and-need-more-info: he didn't trick Alden into anything but he didn't give him all the information he should've had either and definitely took advantage of him being young and ignorant. He was pretty upfront that he wanted Alden to do a sketchy thing to steal his stuff and staff back from Yipalck and that there was a small but not insignificant real danger to going there. And the staff actually straight up told Alden that they'd had the chance to evacuate and--for the sake of science and politics--they chose not to. Hell, Joe handed him a bomb and Alden was like "sure that seems legit". Alden was really the one who--by virtue of knowing nearly nothing about the situation beyond the bare basics and having a hero complex--was really worried for the staff and thought of it as a more dire, heroic rescue operation worth risking his life for. And Joe didn't correct him because...some combination of proper discretion and being a manipulative dick. But not a liar, or a con man. Joe was pretty up front about what he wanted and he held up his end of the bargain and definitely advanced Alden's understanding of his powers by decades. If all had gone as planned, all parties would've been very happy with the outcome.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

I hear all of you. It's the eternal argument whether even one life lost is too many vs. doing the math on how many lives we may afford to lose in order to protect even more lives. I personally don't subscribe to either extreme, and everyone finds their own truths in between them.

MWF

@BeepBoop yeah I am wondering if it started as something like squatters rights where Yipalck couldn't take full control of the lab until all the staff had been properly integrated into the new order.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Well said! Also, he quietly let Stuart see the entire might of all his levels, even the ones Mother helps him conceal . I feel the unending misery quietly approaching.

MWF

Welcome to the Super Supportive patreon fandom! We're happy to have you join us in our weekly quest for delicious super soup!

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Unfortunately, kids always get involved, one way or other. Even with the adults' best intents and precautions in place, which is a recurring theme in the story (remember Jessica's unwillingness to let Lute do battle? [edit: and how it brought an entire new metric ton of suffering on him?]). As for Yipalck, they are certainly a focal point of many interests, and the sum total of these interests seems to be less than ethical from where I stand.

MWF

That was a very amusing part of that conversation despite how small it was. I guess Joe has never spent time on Artona I if the Mother is reduced to gossiping about this eekeekeek man with stray human wizards. And there's something so backhanded about the fact that Alden thought more favorably of him than most because he simply had much lower expectations to begin with.

denatured

Maybe not even to the extent of squatters rights. If they could just negotiate an end to what sounds sort of like a strike, Yipalck could save a ton of effort.

MWF

It does kind of put into perspective why the dad was so reluctant to have his daughters go through the teleport with a baby Avowed as their only shield against the...chaos(?) the whatever it is that shreds people in primitive teleports. He thought he could get them out by much safer plane if it ever came down to an emergency.

denatured

Does anyone think the title Trimeritorious is somewhat similar to Quaternary? Something about ranking? It could mean "meritorious service, three times" but it could also mean "third most meritorious." One of them sounds like a bunch of gold stars. The other sounds like "third best wizard" and there's an ocean of difference in the level of esteem represented. Alden should really be asking what the fucking title means.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

He will. Upon internalising how very stratified Artonan society is and how very powerful a [[ Trimeritorious ]] researcher could have been. It's the same process as gradually understanding the value of his own commendation.

Anthony Lutz

Ignoring the potential for military usage, creating an artificial demon could be for the same reasons we cultivate bacteria and viruses in labs. To better understand what makes it work, and to create vaccines and cures in a way that does not endanger people. Testing new anti-chaos spells or equipment without the requirement of travel to an active corruption event would be quite valuable to science.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Not to forget that Esh removed the obsolete parts of Alden's contract. So high enough external authority may also be able to do the breaking.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

This added perspective may actually diminish her guilt over being afraid for a minute and thus causing their death. She would see the choices of others that also lead to the tragedy.

puppy0cam

I assumed it was about having provided service to all 3 of the triplanets.

S

I was thinking that it would have a deeper meaning tied to the Triplanets - that it represents meritorious service to their entire species

David

Joe has mentioned that there are wizards that are much more important than him, so I doubt he was shooting for the #3 spot

FeathersFavoriteNYC

I speculated the exact opposite last chapter - that she (and the Senator) used the affair to set Joe up. Shows how much incomplete info can lead to differing views :-) .

TaborlintheGreat

We have given a lot of new info, but we still do not have the full picture. Whether what Joe did was nuanced or straight up bad will be determined with the exact details, and I don't doubt we will get them later. Because there is a lot of possibilities that would make it so Joe is not a villain. But I will say that with the current info, unless a very drastic new info is revealed, and there is a chance that such a thing does not exist, Joe is an actual piece of shit, and might as well imprison him behind walls of a prison instead of making him teach at a school. Normally I wouldn't have an opinion like this because generally fantasy novels are a lot darker and more dangerous, more wild and lawless, and you do not ask for a somewhat evil character to go behind bars, you want for them to either die or continue doing things. But soup is not, and I will 100% say Joe not being behind bars is very infuriating. Hopefully there will be some nuance to this that will somehow explain why the blood on Joe's hands does not immediately make him a villain.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

A thread in the best traditions of Soup-whisperers! @JJ can fill in so much detail where I only see the general outline of events, like in the wall of text on Joe's and his assistants' motives last chapter. I wonder if @denatured's argument on relatives as hostages may also explain some of the earlier defections on team Joe?

FeathersFavoriteNYC

House arrest is mild. Leaving them in what amounts to a flooding dungeon? It's more of a torture plot that I would condone. Not that military is known to fully and absolutely refrain from torture... And leaving the kids there is such a strong mental coercion!

FeathersFavoriteNYC

It amazes me how greatly suggestive while also multilayered this book is. First in the thread come the gut feelings (Poor Alden! Bad, bad Joe). Sort of like the gockoratch reaction of "I absolutely know what's right" back in Alden's class. Then thinking ensues and all of a sudden Yipalck, the Senate, wizards and the entire Artonan society are questioned so profoundly. And this is why I love this community so much.

R. Maxwell Steele

Agreed. Jurassic Park. Also there an episode (or 3) of Stargate Atlantis where they try to pull energy from another universe and it generates exotic particles. They think they can predict and contain them, but exotic particles that don't follow the same laws of physics, cannot be contained by our physics. So it goes out of control and blows up a solar system. And they consider that lucky, because technically unstable particles could have just as easily ripped apart our entire universe. Here they are trying to contain and control chaos for their ends. Which seems eerily similar and futile. If perhaps Joe has some deep insight into chaos it would explain his It would also imply that what seems like arrogance might actually be a necessary safety measure. What if he sincerely believes he just created the Artonan 'atomic bomb' and his new title would allow him to keep it from being misused. Without that title his (albeit very suspect) morality doesn't trust handing it over to the evil enemy corporation?

R. Maxwell Steele

Also there an episode (or 3) of Stargate Atlantis where they try to pull energy from another universe and it generates exotic particles. They think they can predict and contain them, but exotic particles that don't follow the same laws of physics, cannot be contained by our physics. So it goes out of control and blows up a solar system. And they consider that lucky, because technically unstable particles could have just as easily ripped apart our entire universe. Here they are trying to contain and control chaos for their ends. Which seems eerily similar and futile. If perhaps Joe has some deep insight into chaos it would explain his It would also imply that what seems like arrogance might actually be a necessary safety measure. What if he sincerely believes he just created the Artonan 'atomic bomb' and his new title would allow him to keep it from being misused. Without that title his (albeit very suspect) morality doesn't trust handing it over to the evil enemy corporation?

R. Maxwell Steele

Also there an episode (or 3) of Stargate Atlantis where they try to pull energy from another universe and it generates exotic particles. They think they can predict and contain them, but exotic particles that don't follow the same laws of physics, cannot be contained by our physics. So it goes out of control and blows up a solar system. And they consider that lucky, because technically unstable particles could have just as easily ripped apart our entire universe. Here they are trying to contain and control chaos for their ends. Which seems eerily similar and futile. If perhaps Joe has some deep insight into chaos it would explain his It would also imply that what seems like arrogance might actually be a necessary safety measure. What if he sincerely believes he just created the Artonan 'atomic bomb' and his new title would allow him to keep it from being misused. Without that title his (albeit very suspect) morality doesn't trust handing it over to the evil enemy corporation?

R. Maxwell Steele

This is essentially the team that falls for the Snape-is-evil red herring in the first book and every subsequent book until he's finally redeemed.

R. Maxwell Steele

They likely also *knew* what they had created and how important it was not to let the corporation get it.

R. Maxwell Steele

At some point down the road after Snape blaming Joe for the whole series, they will finally see Joe's side of the story and he will be redeemed. The only real issue is resurrecting Alan Rickman to play the role in the movie that eventually gets made.

R. Maxwell Steele

Well essentially if you are unstabilized against Chaos but capable of retaining your being in its presence, you are susceptible to its authority. As which point it subsumes your being instead of erasing you. So essentially if you are strong in the wrong way and weak in the wrong way it corrupts you. Which is what they are imagining happening to the bokav.

R. Maxwell Steele

The contracts were to prevent the corporations from getting the information. There an episode (or 3) of Stargate Atlantis where they try to pull energy from another universe and it generates exotic particles. They think they can predict and contain them, but exotic particles that don't follow the same laws of physics, cannot be contained by our physics. So it goes out of control and blows up a solar system. And they consider that lucky, because technically unstable particles could have just as easily ripped apart our entire universe. Here they are trying to contain and control chaos for their ends. Which seems eerily similar and futile. If perhaps Joe has some deep insight into chaos it would explain his It would also imply that what seems like arrogance might actually be a necessary safety measure. What if he sincerely believes he just created the Artonan 'atomic bomb' and his new title would allow him to keep it from being misused. Without that title his (albeit very suspect) morality doesn't trust handing it over to the evil enemy corporation...who lacking the ability to interact with chaos the same way Joe does, would potentially devastate the universe.

R. Maxwell Steele

The lab was reinforced against chaos and they had specialized scientific equipment that was important enough to them they were risking their lives to smuggle it away from the corporation. Even Kibby was 1000% sure she would not let that equipment fall into enemy hands.

R. Maxwell Steele

Also there an episode (or 3) of Stargate Atlantis where they try to pull energy from another universe and it generates exotic particles. They think they can predict and contain them, but exotic particles that don't follow the same laws of physics, cannot be contained by our physics. So it goes out of control and blows up a solar system. And they consider that lucky, because technically unstable particles could have just as easily ripped apart our entire universe. Here they are trying to contain and control chaos for their ends. Which seems eerily similar and futile. If perhaps Joe has some deep insight into chaos it would explain his It would also imply that what seems like arrogance might actually be a necessary safety measure. What if he sincerely believes he just created the Artonan 'atomic bomb' and his new title would allow him to keep it from being misused. Without that title his (albeit very suspect) morality doesn't trust handing it over to the evil enemy corporation, who not being able to interact with Chaos the way Joe can, would have destroyed the universe.

WannaBeATree

Thr problem could just be that a genius chaos researcher stopped researching a topic very deae to knights, because of politics.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Also, we got some more lore so subtly it needs a few rereads to catch. So, guessing time: If Yenu-petz can see the entirety of Alden's memory, will she catch on the auriad contracting and loosening on his wrist, as if that was his magical tell? Will she catch the lapses of thought when he started to say "I want to know how strong the hit is"? And what will she do with the knowledge? I feel Alden's wizardness secret may be resolved soon in story time.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

To me, his morality is suspect but not nearly so much as his opponents' morality. And they are the same people who wanted his results. Apparently still want them given Trash-nor was pestering him even on Earth.

Pete

Maxwell just how many comments did you paste that reply under?^^

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Maybe in Sleycaverse Alan Rickman was an Avowed actor who vanished on assignment before Alden's birth, much like Hannah. And very soon a Rickman demon will come back to continue his movie career?

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Exactly the point I made at length in the comments on last chapter. Smuggling the equipment out was *the* unique feature Alden brought, unlike any other contact or Awoved. And maybe Joe knew of his skill because he had researched similar skills for smuggling purposes.

Catherine

“If you don’t let Kivb-ee use quite as much explosive gel as she wants to in that one. Why does a child her age know how to make explosive gel?” 😂😂😂

Tori, Writher #1 Fan

Stuart trying to guess what the assistants were thinking, and why they took the risk of staying, reminds me of Alden's words to Quinyeth in the previous chapter: “Declared Asay-tor probably made the most thoughtful choice for himself during his own choosing season,” he said. “I doubt he had time to choose more properly for Declared Stu-art’h than Declared Stu-art’h could. So.” At this point I still trust that Ro-den's lab assistants made a better choice for themselves than I would know how to make for them. If top chaos experts like them couldn't predict that the contract would fail so suddenly, no one can (except all us readers who have the gift of hindsight). But there's still other parts of the story we're clearly missing.

Sky23

OMG, yes! I’ve always wondered why they sent him to a school, as punishment, where he has pretty much unsupervised access to teach and manipulate impressionable young people. Wait, I just noticed a theme, Gorgon was punished by having to work at the consulate, why do they see being around children as a punishment for their criminals? Like that’s actually wild, he should be in a cell, not with children if he’s such a criminal. But I do have to disagree with you on the point that there might be some justification that makes him not a villain for doing all of this. Anyone whose negligence or deliberate action kills or traumatizes children is inalienably, inherently, and without exception a complete monster. Children are just so vulnerable that I genuinely don’t think I could ever justify that.

Guus van der Borg

So easily! Yes, all he had to do is betray all of his principles and hand over his highly dangerous and weaponizable life's work to a corporation that has been shown to be willing to leave people stuck in a chaos zone to prove a point. Yes, so easy!

Sky23

I think every story needs a villain, and that we found a great one in Joe. Not every villain needs to be redeemed, Joe is nuanced, there is kindness in him, but it is overshadowed or has been twisted by the evil. It all just goes to show what excellent writing this is that people have such strong opinions on him on both sides.

Sky23

I mean, maybe his personality is just that way, but he was also 15. I think we were all dumb and gullible at 15.

JJ Hunter

@Pete, that rubbed me the wrong way also! Why are the non-wizard seasoned chaos researchers not trusted without a contract to be responsible with the knowledge of their own discovery but 'qualified' members of the wizard class get it for free? We know from Stu-art'h just how badly one wizard going off on a research binge can go for everyone else if they demonify - wouldn't non-wizard chaos researchers actually be more trustworthy with potential apocalypse-level chaos research knowledge than elite wizards with their known tendencies to arrogance and dominance over the self and the universe? Why aren't those non-wizard chaos researchers included in the qualified people who get access to new research discoveries?

Partha Peddi

I have been wondering what skill exhaustion means and its relation to the new bound authority accumulation. Skill usage refers to bound authority. If the Avoved faces skill exhaustion, does it mean the bound authority becomes stagnant, and bound authority overuse result in more bound authority getting generated? Alden gained bound authority due to his skill usage. The way I understand it, the conflict between the free and bound authority causes the free authority to grow in size quickly on its usage with auriad based spells. Does this conflict help with faster growth of bound authority growth as well?

JJ Hunter

@denatured, the Contract finally breaking was the unexpected part of that chaos incident, no? Rising chaos levels in the area was projected with the equivalent of a weather report for *months* and appeared to be publicly accessible information on Thegund. I think it's worth making a distinction between what shady things Yipalck was apparently willing to do to strongarm getting the researchers into less favorable contracts with itself and what the Grand Senate was fully informed of and condoning. (Why there wasn't stronger senate oversight of Yipalck's follow up actions in this case sure is interesting; how many of those committee senators were also investors or owners of Yipalck corporation, I wonder?)

FeathersFavoriteNYC

In the procedures to handle secrecy, the cracks in Artonan society are indeed very visible. I assume the rules on who has access to research data are being drafted by the users themselves. Then a Senate with strong links to Yipalck votes for lenient procedures, possibly against the objections of the knights who die while mopping up the mess. And neither of the parties even considers access rules for non-wizards - no more than they spare a thought to recruiting human Knights. More broadly, spreading chaos is unsustainable but the ruling classes do not even consider curbing it.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Kibby is smart and Alden gave her hints not to overdo it with bombing. So as off-topic, I wonder if over time she will gravitate towards taking over Joe's research. This is both personal to her and much better use of her genius instead of dying early as a not very strong Knight.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Pain is part of growing up, eventually. Some cultures expose their youth earlier, and I can see Artonans being such culture. Even Earth has to be, when chaos is at the doors - and its slower adaptation is making it more vulnerable.

Aspiring Moth

not resolved, but I expect healer yenu will know about it. she won't tell anyone because of patient confidentiality, and can give Alden some advice

denatured

Alden's utter non-answer is funny too We don't talk about Kibby's demolition skills

Francis

Holy lore dump

JennP

We don't know if that knowledge was at all dangerous, and not just valuable. That's an assumption. And he let his daughter die. Also, the information was to be shared with everyone, not just that corporation. That's why Joe felt he deserved the title, for making a discovery which might benefit all

Francis

Great point BeepBoop. If they wanted to take the risk, it was on them. But Kibby's father really should've been more pragmatic

Francis

Fully agree. It could be that a born-commoner have never received that title in all of Artonan history. It could be symbolic. And we know that Joe treated commoners differently from other wizards. He might have been their revolutionary

Francis

The whole thing reeks of corruption, I agree. When we hear the full story, we will probably understand why Joe did what he did, BUT we would still not excuse him

Francis

Yeah there is something with that research that we don't know yet...

WannaBeATree

I wonder if the thing with the pipes we saw in Joe's room is the thing he destroyed? It seems to be more complete whenever some time passes and he keeps it aroud. Also, I have my suspitions about how the chaos managed to break through without the researchers being able to predict it. Same with the Matadero event happening during the demon fight and some avowed hearing voices or certain feeling?(i forgot). Awfully inconvenient timing for something 'random' and 'unlikely' to happen. There is a proverb going something like: "If you are surprised by something, it means that something you believe is wrong." Because surprise is unexpected and if your believes are all true, then nothing unexpected can happen. So there is still some deeper secret about chaos. Unless even the random nature itself is random?

Justin

Thanks for the chapter

WannaBeATree

I am not sure. We don't realy publish to everyone how to make bombs, nuclear weapons, bio weapons, toxins etc. especially in an easily replicatable way. Demons seem to be the Nr.1 threat of the universe, so any information about potentialy making it worse is rightfully restricted to those who are under more scrutiny and have shown responsibility their whole life. On the other hand, secrecy tatoos exist, so leaks are imposible... Maybe there is a reason why they don't just allow anyone to read it and just tatoo them? Like 'normal' people experimenting with chaos would be exponentialy more dangerous and expensive, so it is more costeffective to do a blanked ban and do exceptions for outstanding talents?

WannaBeATree

@5haun Excelent comment! :) @Unknown How did he try? Am I forgetting something? Maybe it was too subtle for me to notice. I think the teleportation failure status was solely decided by the contracts. For both efficienty and peoples peace of mind. Like Alis being beside herself for realising that someone was alife all this time. Maybe the part in the contract about Alden trying his best? I am genuinly curious.

Wesley Miller

Wow, Joe is a lot worse of a person than I thought

WannaBeATree

I think the information reveal is pretty realistic. No reason to tell the traumatized young alien person anything, if he does not ask and Alden was not in a frame of mind to ask. Thar said, pausing the series untill all answers are available is also an option. I do enjoy that there do not seem to be any consistency errors with the story so far, which is usualy the reason I personaly decide to drop stories.

Brandon Steele

I hope when Alden finally reveals his ability to control his authority he just "pats" them with his authority.

WannaBeATree

? I thought the gift was the 'bribe' for affixing late, that Joe mentioned. He said that if Avowed wait, the Contract starts offering bribes before forcefully doing it. Alden accepted the affixation and was not forced, thus the bribes. I loved how Mother made it seem to be a gift, rather than a bribe. Not to mention one that furthers her own goals, while being practical and usefull even without considering them. Delightfuly manipulitive as always.

SaltyBoi

As I understand it, skill usage leads to bound authority growth, which is in the skill, which lets the skill level. Unbound authority is bound to provide level ups.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

My take is he proved merits - that is, excellent scientific achievements - in three magical disciplines (one being transmogrification since he teased Alden's party costume). Like Nobel prizes in three disciplines at once.

Ian T Hathaway

Oh god. Joe. I know, rationally, the truth is somewhere between Joe and Stu's version of events. But it's gonna be hard to think of my Whirly Rodent affectionately for a little bit.

Shawn

I have imagined that scene soooo many times in so many ways. Ultimately I hope he has Stu join him on their learning cushions like he did with Kibby.

Joshua Flowers

Given the length Joe and his staff went to destroy and suppress their research I would agree. Stu comes from a knight family and sees Joes demand as selfish and petty, but I could very well see the title giving him enough sway to ensure whatever discover they had made gets properly handled. For all his faults Joe does seem to have a degree of trepidation about sharing secrets of Magic, Authority, and Science as witnessed with his interactions thus far. I will withhold my judgment until I see the cause of this caution

JJ Hunter

@WannaBeATree, Mother was performing haeccity-saving surgery on Alden's affixation; Alden wanted her to save him, no bribes were required. He was surprised and delighted she chose to give him a free gift anyway (and a bonus gift with strings attached option).

Alexander Dupree

Yeah I knew he was a dick but I didn’t realize he couldn’t even be bothered to save some people’s lives instead of earning a bit of bling.

Alexander Dupree

Any usage of his authority strengthens it and wears it down similar to muscles from what we’ve seen. Though the strengthening part is more immediate than muscle.

11037

Artonan society revolves a huge amount around titles and hierarchies. I think it's fair someone living in a society like that places great value in them, and be willing to take some risks to obtain them. The commendation Alden has is a type of title, and think of how big an impact that has had. A refusal to evacuate people unless they take a magical vow of silence is still morally reprehensible. Joe doesn't take all the blame here.

Christian Loveland

I really hope he tells Stuart soon. Stuart couldn't have made it more clear so far that he is A:willing to do a lot for their friendship, and B:has a very personal stake against people forcing other people to be or not to be Knights. The value of the advice they could offer each other will only diminish the longer Alden waits. Also I hate the main character keeps secrets from friends trope.

11037

The issue is that Stewart has taken oaths, and he's made clear those take precedence. Does a species learning to become wizards constitute a potential threat to the Tri-planets? He may be compelled to report it.

Zach

Thanks for the chapter! I now have even more hate for Joe!

Ano Ano

That's not quite right. The assistants didn't need to spill their secrets to get out of there. They just had to get magically binding NDAs. It's kind of reasonable to not let people wander around with dangerous demon creation secrets and no guard rails.

Robert Mullins

This also why I think Yenu will find out first. She already has proven that she's willing to risk her own life kidnapping the primary's own son if that's what it takes to ensure her patients receive proper treatment. Between that and the way his wizardry is tied up into his current and future mental problems, I'm pretty certain she'll be either the first or the second to know. Well, outside boe, Kibby, and the systems. And she's well positioned to give Alden context on how the knight oaths might affect his relationship with Stu-art'h.

Christine

From ch 30: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They assumed they would be shipped off to a safer, more populated area as soon as the new wizard arrived. Eventually, Joe would arrange for them to travel to the mother planet by spacecraft, and from there, they would be able to safely teleport and join him at the university. However, to everyone’s surprise it went the opposite way. The promised new wizard never appeared at all. The chaos index, whatever that was, rose rapidly for months. And when it finally hit some particular limit a few weeks ago, everyone at the lab requested evacuation. But the Yipalck employees were classified differently than the Joe loyalists. A ship came to pick them up along with some of the lab equipment, but the loyalists were told they had to remain behind. Unless they were willing to quit Joe’s service. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I mean, the two stories fit... but it's amazing how much context changes one's view of the situation. There's also little discrepancies in what the lab assistants claim and what Stuart reports. Stuart says "I thought…it’s important for you to know that they only had to agree not to continue the research or share it in order to leave. As far as I know.” That's a bit different than never being able to work for Joe again, as Alden understands them to say. So many misunderstandings, unreliable actors and cultural context to make it a confusing situation! I love the growth in complexity, I always thought Joe's woe-is-me story was a little suspicious, and Stuart's retelling is basically the Yipalk side-of-the-story.

Christine

Also, I wonder if Joe's research subject was unknown before he presented it? Perhaps he was doing research that he was not legally qualified to do... so he wanted a title that would allow him to continue it? And by denying him that title, they were stealing his ability to continue that research from him? Just speculation! Obviously Joe is still a right bastard, regardless! His use of Alden instead of someone more qualified was super prideful and greedy

James Pitcairn

Made me think of Hermes Trimegistus, an ancient occult philosopher. Which I thought was funny because trimeritorious seems to be a wizard title

MatrixM

The other knights would be able to sense it, though. They'd need to lie and somehow trick them into thinking it was Stu that did the patting. We don't know if that's possible. Then again, Alden doesn't know his pats can be sensed, either....so he could very well do it and then realise he's screwed.

Aspiring Moth

I'm very confused about how saying he wanted to feel the strength of the spell against his skill is something a normal avowed couldn't do. on the day he affixed, he could feel skill drain and the relative weight of things like the box with ping-pong balls inside vs the lit lighter. he could feel Jeremy's punch. at leafsong he was able to feel the increased drain of things like lab experiments and Joe's bomb. surely being hit hard by a spell would be no different? a normal avowed would just feel a high amount of skill drain

Aspiring Moth

Alden: "does anyone actually believe our 'a demon attacked the lab and we had to flee' story at this point?" Stuart: :|

Emma Mass

Perhaps Gorgon's ritual makes him more sensitive than other avowed before he got the authority sense. Maybe it facilitated his acquisition of it but it's possible it could be a plot hole.

m2wester

Frankly, I wouldn't bet on the Yipalk/Senator side of the story to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. To me, Joes behaviour on Earth doesn't really make sense at this point; I think there's still reveals to be revealed.

Jeffrey

I viewed it as a mistake that Alden made in the moment. As in, he was instinctively describing feeling the impact in an "artoran authority sense" way, that would also make sense in the "normal avowed way," but in the moment it's too quick for him to understand that what he was saying is fine, so he changed it. I also think it's indicative of Alden's comfort with Stu, where he keeps having these moments where he accidentally almost reveals his secrets to Stu, only realizing/stopping himself at the last second (or not at all in the Bearer of All Burdens cabin moment).

Alex Scriber

I enjoy Super Supportive because the main characters always try to do the right thing. That's really rare in media. It's much harder to write good people than bad ones. But because it is hard to write good people, everyone who tries inevitably has parts that they later come to realize aren't as successful as most of their work. I really like Super Supportive and I enjoyed the first half of the chapter, but the last part where the situation on Thegund is recontextualized upset me and it took me a long time to try to find a way to describe why. I'm fine with Ro-den being presented as more of a bad guy. But that doesn't make the Yipalck corporation blameless. Thegund was a disaster. I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Lots of people made mistakes. Several people made terrible, awful, very bad, no good decisions. Kibby and her sister weren't researchers. They didn't have any secret knowledge or contract tattoos. Yipalck had both the ability and responsibility to evacuate literal children from the path of a disaster, and chose not to. Any retconning or recontexualization that tends to alleviate Yipalck of the blame removes not just their responsibility but also their agency. There were plenty of responsible adults who could have made better decisions. Decisions that didn't involve leaving literal children to die. Hopefully in a follow up chapter we'll learn that Stuart is also misinformed about the details of the situation and the pendulum of blame swings back the other way. Hopefully a later chapter will acknowledge and respect the personhood and agency and responsibility of everyone involved. After all, Stuart provides no source for his information and specifically says "I can’t truly know, and it’s not right to speak for them confidently." Hopefully we'll learn that Stuart was wrong to speak so confidently about a situation he was not involved in.

Alex Scriber

This feels like a really important detail. Mother, the all-but-omniscient and impressively god-like entity, describes Joe as "naughty." "Naughty" isn't an adjective you'd use for a nice person, but it's also not how you describe someone who is really evil.

denatured

The pat that Lind-otta felt was omnidirectional, untargeted. We don't have confirmation that targeted pats can be felt beyond the recipient. We are starting to get vague clues that spells, or maybe their traces, can be felt by sensitive people. So maybe someone watching closely might notice, who knows.

David

My understanding was that his skill allows him to feel some of the "weight" of his burden, but only an authority sense would allow him to feel how much that weight draws from his reserves, or how much of his authority remains available for use. So without authority sense he could say "x is heavy, but y is light", with authority sense he could say "x draws a quarter of my reserves in one hit, whereas I could bear y all day". If so, it's not a slip up where one wrong word will expose him, but he shouldn't be talking about this impact of his skill on his authority with so much... well, authority.

JJ Hunter

@Christine, I think 'Stu's retelling is basically the Yipalck side-of-the-story' is a critical insight. We know Stu's been hearing all kinds of negative Ro-den gossip from his classmates after they endure one of Ro-den's punitive classes. It's very likely that some of those classmates are directly related to the same elite wizards Ro-den was recently antagonizing from the Grand Senate committee, and/or with Yipalck corporation interests at stake.

ImNotHere

mmh... I didn't read it as an absolution of Yilpack, just lifting the veil on Ro-den reasons. Until now, we only had the story from Ro-den's side. Like you said there were two children and the evacuation request came after the level passed a threshold (just went over that part again). So a sort between the former employees was forcing them to choose with their security added to the balance. If it was for safety reason (building demons in a garage), Yilpack had most probably the Grand Senate backing them and putting the loyalists in isolation must have been possible. And this time it's more the Yilpack/Grand Senate version (Grand Senate who was stingy) So the truth is probably somewhere between the two. Sometimes there is no good side, just innocents stuck in the middle (especially with commercial agreement in the mix) N.B. : Kibby might not be a researcher but she can make explosive gel!

JJ Hunter

It seems in line with 'Triforming' instead of 'Terraforming', 'Argold' instead of 'gold', etc It's the fancy TriPlanets version of Meritorious, and I expect it gets a Tri- prefix in System translation to help distinguish it from mere earthly meritiorius.

JJ Hunter

164, Stu on Ro-den: "'He is a << foul >> instructor [....] If you want, I’ll tell you all the rumors my classmates shared about him after that lab.'” Are Stu's Leafsong classmates' gossip his main source for the Ro-den details he's recounting here? If yes, there's no small irony to Stu sharing that sanitized heresay with Alden the same day Alden learned how much the unexamined groupthink among Stu's former Rapport I classmates hurt and isolated him from the very peers he expected to support him.

JJ Hunter

Interesting to compare the condemnation from Stu, Ro-den's student, this chapter: "'Worli Ro-den is selfish, angry, and << distressingly weird >>. I do not understand him well, and what I understand, I do not like at all'" vs. the Ro-den condemnation Alden previously heard from Hn'tyon Esh-erdi: 153: “'I do have more than enough knowledge of Ro-den’s errors to judge him, and I judge him to be selfish, << reckless >>, and arrogant. Unforgivably so for a wizard of his age and << alleged >> intelligence.'”

AFK37115

they agreed on selfish, and from what stu explained about ro-den's actions in the incident I can see why esh-erdi judges him reckless and unbelievably arrogant for an accomplished chaos researcher based on his errors (though from ro-den's words with alden in leafsong, he knew there is danger from chaos, but probably thought it negligible enough to continue sending alden). esh-erdi judged him based on his errors, stu probably does too but also from his behavior as instructor, and he can see he is angry and very weird to him. the anger might be the mask he shows the students to keep it together or a more deep anger at the world and for what heppened. as for the weirdness, stu's life and perspective is very different from ro-den and he struggles to relate to his leafsong peers so I am not surprised, amusing that he finds ro-den as weird as re-den finds stu, ro-den really couldn't figure out why stu sent him to earth although it is very obviously simply to help earth's avowed even if he doesn't know about stu's friendship with alden specifically

David

Yes, the conflict between free and bound accelerates the growth of both.

Sleyca

No spoilers about whether Stuart is correctly informed in what he says or how much more there is/isn't to the Joe situation. And the following is just a personal comment on the topic of whether it was cool of Stuart to give Alden this info, not an authorial comment on whether it will all play out well in the end. (Sorry, so many disclaimers.) I think if this is what Stuart knows, then when Alden says, "The assistants were trapped there due to politics and the situation." pointing out that they weren't entirely trapped would be an important clarification. If we peel a layer or two back, Alden's asking about sacrifice. He has to assume Joe didn't have some very cheap and easy method of getting his people out of there, but were there expensive options? Couldn't Ro-den have made some personal sacrifice instead of leading Alden to believe that he was the only way? Alden's thinking from a place of hurt and anger at Joe specifically. And we know he has dark feelings about Yipalck. But he hasn't ever directed any anger, or even questions, at the assistants. Stuart saying, "The scientists could have made choices that would have kept you out of this, too," doesn't free the corporation from blame. It just makes Alden acknowledge the fact that the bunch of intelligent, Joe-loving, adult Artonans who were relying on him to smuggle them away might have painted themselves in the best possible light. For him and for Kibby. They were Kibby's family. They were scared. They were researching chaos with Joe. Yipalck wouldn't let them on a ship to safety until they gave in. They told the human child he couldn't get in the car when everything went bad and he was scared. Thenn-ar tried to help him as she died. Complex people. As it's all written now, it *could* be true that everyone except the kids were being risky or greedy or trying to find ways to hold the other involved parties over barrels. And they pushed it for too long, on the wrong moon.

Sleyca

These comments made me smile. The LeafSong kids probably get so much "angry" off of Joe; he's got them shoving their hands up fourth bowels while he swears at them and makes their assistants cry. I bet he doesn't do that to Esh-erdi.

Sleyca

Stuart should tell them all he's the reason Joe's gone and become a hero to the entire school.

Sleyca

I think this is a good point Aspiring Moth. He feels it differently from a normal Avowed in a way he definitely shouldn't draw attention to, but I don't want it to be confusing. I'll probably refine it . Thank you!

ImNotHere

Complex, yes. Able to leave by themselves? I would need more of your insight in futur chapters. There is to take in consideration the power balance between normal and wizard Artonans. Kibby seems to be a big fan, it probably stems from her parents/group of adult around her. So without going to the cult, there is probably a huge dedication to Ro-den. "Betraying" him might be asking more than they can do. I can't wait for more information on this and everything else. Thanks for writing this story

Parry Henis

Warning: possible SPOILER below! (Just my guess though.) Stu has so many puzzle pieces about Aldens power, his tattoo and caracter. Add to that intelligence, obsessive dilligence and his very high level of emotional investment in Alden. 'He is the only one on my side who sees me as me rather than as daddys comfort and [affixeation pain consolation].' I expect Stu to already have concluded most if not all the stuff, but of course he respects Alden enough to wait until Alden decides to share. Only clear slip up so far: paying respect to the commondation in a way proper for a commended knight. Why else would Stu seem breach [proper protocol] like that? Secrecy-of-the-House-will-not-be-asked-of-my-guest-Stu?

Jazehiah

What artificial demon did they create? Alden said they fled from a massive demon. Ro-den said "she's not that big." We initially thought this was a joke about Kibby. What if it wasn't a joke? What if Kibby is an artificial demon? She's totally not, but it would be a neat twist. It's almost certainly related to those locusts.

SkySeeker

🎶 Hit me with your best shot! Why don't you hit me with your best shot..." (Getting this stuck in my head every time I see the title.)

Aspiring Moth

Alden was practicing blocking foes from all directions that were evading him in the reaction time room at North of North. he wasn't sure where to aim his shield in the kill klein pile up in gym. and now we have chaos causing attacks from random directions I think Alden may be able to block things automatically in the same way he was able to catch things automatically. he could catch things automatically because his skill is designed to bear burdens, and he was becoming more aligned with it. but it's also designed to protect burdens. Alden himself is the most vulnerable part of the protection of his burden, so shielding himself is the same as shielding the burden (if he gets hurt too badly he'll be unable to bear if after all). aligning with his skill in that way while not trying to catch objects could result in blocking strikes with a built in aimbot when zeridee was getting brain surgery, her status as entruster was removed. it was speculated at the time that that was due to her brain being turned off. it's a fair assumption then that if the entruster dies, Alden would lose entrustment of the burden. so protecting the entruster is as important as protecting Alden's body. if the shielding aimbot described above works for protecting Alden, it may also work for protecting the entruster if these are true, then we'll be seeing the strength of bearer of all burdens as a support skill for the first time. entrustment is no longer an occasionally slightly useful annoyance, but a strength that allows him to protect his entruster as a bonus, it would allow him to effortlessly protect himself from a certain A rank speedster that he wouldn't normally be able to react to, and in combination with the strength of the traveller's body wordchain, beat him in a fist fight

Joseph

Let me try to build up a somewhat coherent timeline of events. Bit of a challenge since the plot's a leaky mess rn, but wherever there's conflict I'll use the interpretation that has more evidence in text, or makes more sense based on what we've been previously told. 1. Joe & his assistants invent artificial demons as part of their research on "containing demonic energies". He copies all the research and a prototype (since it's expected to share chaos related research with everyone else) and brings it to home planet for a presentation and his reward. 2. Everyone expected him to get the <> title but he gets snubbed. He had a small amount of support from the Primary & perhaps some other Knights (they would benefit from his research) and yet still not enough clout to get the title, so we can assume there was no recourse. It's mentioned that he was being supported and congratulated "under the table" so it's likely that he broke through a lot of chaos-related laws and bureaucracy in order to expediate his research, which may have been given as a reason for denying him the title. 3. Joe destroys the copies and all the presentations which he was supposed to give to the rest of wizarding society (le gasp) but still has the knowledge and resources (lab + people) to easily replicate it and then goes back to the lab. Maybe he said something like "If you say I broke the laws to get this research done, then it's only proper that it's destroyed." (might sound like a threat to everyone else). 4. Joe gets called into trial over said destruction. Negotiations break down, still no title. He sleeps with a senator's wife and offends another senator. 5. Joe gets punished for all the chaos laws he broke during his research (which everyone suddenly cares about because Grand Senator), demoted and pushed into teaching at Leafsong for x amount of years. 6. In retaliation, Joe somehow breaks the secrecy contracts around his research without any of his assistants knowing about it (*1). 7. All his assistants at the lab are told Yipalck is taking over and that they'll send another wizard, told to "shift loyalties". Most of the assistants gave in and "signed on with the new owners". All of them expected new wizard to arrive and for the research to continue, while the Joe loyalists would be kicked out of the lab to the other side of the moon - from where they could teleport and join Joe at Leafsong (*2). 8. Yipalck can't find a new Wizard to take over due to the dangerous environment, so they plan to shut the entire thing down (Knights are slightly annoyed at both them and Joe for this situation. Stu being "le honorable man" thinks Joe should've swallowed his pride and maybe sucked up to the senators or let go of something else for his title). 9. Assistants stuck in limbo for a while, chaos rises, all of them ask for evacuation (at this point everyone knows that they are in danger). 10. Yipalck is no longer continuing the research, so they use Avowed to evacuate the people that switched sides & some equipment, and tell the others to "quit Joe's service" in order to be evacuated (their requests are given lowest priority level). 11. Joe tries to find other ways to evacuate his loyalists. Non-system teleportation is not viable , and due to the restrictions on his sentencing, he can't pay his Avowed contacts as much talents, spell impressions & foundation points as he used to (his high level contracted Avowed won't work for Argold which is "easily obtained") (*3). 12. Enter Alden. Thegund arc happens. Thanks to Alden, some of the assistants were able to be evacuated and Kibby saved - instead of everyone there dying. 13. Lab blown up by Alden and Kibby, but everyone thinks Joe did it (due to his actions in #3 and plausible threats to do so) which gets him into even more shit. 14. Knights and shit around Alden, something something, Joe doesn't want to be seen around him for both of their sakes. \*1 : There is no mention or hint of any broken secrecy contracts prior to Ch. 207. \*2 : Contradict's with Stuart's version of events where they "tell whoever they like to build artificial demon", as the loyalist Assistants were planning to return to Joe, where presumably he would get them back into their original secrecy contracts (again *1, never mentioned prior to Ch. 207). \*3 : Once again, contradicts with Stuart's vague assertion that Joe "could've done something" (which is presumably forcing his assistants to join the corpo). He was certainly trying to get them out, while the corpo was holding their lives hostage. A lot of the arguments against the assistants' version of events can be summed up with "they are brainless fanatics", which is just asinine. You can't really deny their existing plans and the coherent explanation of events that were present in the story until this most recent chapter. Joe is still not evil at all in this scenario - the corporation is far more evil still. Best you can accuse him is of being too stubborn. But then again, no one really expected a sudden chaos outbreak right on top of his lab, so blaming Joe for this when he was at least trying to get his people out while severely restricted system-wise doesn't really make sense. The corpo - meanwhile - had all the leverage and could've easily got the loyalists out since they should theoretically already have all the knowledge they need from the assistants that swiched sides, but they Also wanted to be stubborn and kick them out of Joe's hands (and presumably into their own) even at the cost of risking their lives and no one getting them. Right now, Joe doesn't want to get involved with Alden. And Alden now has a Severely colored version of events in his head thanks to him being pissed at Joe. Kibby probably still likes Joe, but she's unlikely to understand the greater events, and Alden will just think she's a kid who doesn't know any better. So in Doylist terms, Joe's reputation for Alden (and by extension, the readers) been blackened and closed off for the foreseeable future. I expect us to simply move on from all Joe-related discussions after this - unless we suddenly get a Joe PoV or Alden starts caring about Kibby's version of events. If there was a plan to address Joe's circumstances in more detail and clear the air, I would have been more than happy about the story bringing him up again. But the way this entire conversation was framed felt Very forced. Joe's current bout of selfishness with respect to Alden is him no longer wanting to talk to him because of some or the other reason (hinting at some tension with the Knights). Someone’s interpretation I saw was that Alden would see the hidden implications Joe kept throwing at him and "wouldn't leave it alone" which is fair, but I just didn't think he was going to appear in the story in the near future for that to play out. But foregoing all of that, Alden asked Stuart about Joe's role in helping the assistants for some reason. How did his thoughts and the conversation even get there? You'd expect Alden to ask Stuart if there was some tension between Joe and the Knights, and why Joe was being distant, the social dynamics between him and Esh-Erdi, the cultural connotations of a Wizard like him hanging out with Alden etc. etc. - all stuff related to his recent confusion and anger about how Joe is acting. Shutting him out completely has been the main reason Alden's been pissed at Joe, at least recently. Even though he hasn't even thought about Joe in the past 30 chapters. Regarding Joe's role in the Thegund disaster, Alden already said his piece back in the Pinball chapter. Prior to this chapter there's never been any indication that Alden doubted Joe's version of events. He's never thought of the Assistants after that, they don't appear in the nightmare, and even in the Pinball chapter, Alden didn't ask about the other assistants he rescued, just assumed Joe had arranged for them. Which is why this entire chapter feels like a hit piece on Joe.

J Reynolds

Stuart maybe can guess that there's something up. However, if it's confirmed, he has to do something about it. Which he'd rather not. So he's looking the other way.

Sleyca

Wow! This is a lot of in-depth analysis and outlining! Very cool to see. Addressing the bottom bit: Alden asks Stuart about Joe's role in helping the assistants instead of anything else because Alden's latest realization about Joe was that he "was big enough to pick his own berries." This isn't a spoiler, since I feel like so much textual evidence is present--Worli Ro-den is not a small fry. He presented himself to Alden as someone with his hands completely tied, but Alden realizes while he's filling up his fruit basket that someone as powerful as Ro-den must have had *some kind* of options that weren't Alden. They were just options he didn't like as much for whatever reason. Some textual evidence for Joe's ability to pick his own berries/Alden's thought process prior to this chapter: Ro-den is smart. Part of Ro-den's punishment for pissing off at least one Grand Senator is an ego-preserving teaching position, no doubt coveted by other excellent wizards, that he can use to hobnob with the elite and that he thinks is beneath him. (Remember, college professorship is more of a prestigious thing on the Triplanets than here on Earth.) He once had fifty or so talented people working for him in his own little Thegundese science kingdom. He was once able to summon very high ranking Avowed. His auriad is massive. And he tells Alden at LeafSong that he thinks he can weasel his way out of a lot of his punishments in a year or so, enough so that he'll be able to take one human ryeh-b't under his wing as a permanent hire without anyone questioning it. *** PINBALL CHAPTER! -- I actually almost called up the pinball chapter in here, and I might at some point in the future because it's such an ouch when read in hindsight. Alden has only thought about the pinball phone call once since then, if I remember correctly, when he was super offended that Joe tried to get away from him on Matadero and he thinks about how unfair that is since during the pinball call he gave Joe a lot of grace. A direct line can be drawn from that pinball call to this chapter that really drives home why Alden is so hurt and pissed. Here's what he says to Joe, and here's how he thinks of what he did on Thegund in the days immediately after Thegund: “I don’t think you made a bad gamble. If just a few things had gone a little bit differently, we could have gotten them all out. I don’t really know how Artonans weigh it…one Avowed vs. however many regular people. But I think you’d have been stupid not to ask me to go. The corruption event could have broken the System a month later than it did. Or a day. Or a minute. I was that close to teleporting back to the university with Kibby and her sister. Sometimes everything just goes wrong.” Alden is awfully kind to Joe here, because he's still looking through the lens Joe polished for him. This is basically: "I don't think you made a bad gamble, and I think you'd have been stupid not to ask me to go, because you were just weighing my life as worth less than a dozen other peoples' combined. I'm mad it happened but I'm okay with you because I was your only choice." And Joe says, "Indeed." Then he immediately changes the subject to asking what the pinball machine is. A few months later, Alden's offering to help the little dude in the greenhouse pick fruit, and he has the realization that he was probably not the only choice. He was the *preferred* choice for a very powerful (if down-on-his-luck) person who's already told him his character flaw is reaching for a little too much and breaking things along the way. That's just a hard pill to swallow, because it means what Joe was weighing was *not* the smallish risk to Alden's life versus the opportunity to save several other people. Joe was weighing the smallish risk to Alden's life as a price to be paid to ensure the pleasantest outcome for Joe. I don't think it's forced at all for him to want to get final confirmation from Stuart that this was how it really was and he wasn't missing something. I think this is the biggest unresolved question in Alden's mind at the moment, because he's not really wondering as much about most of the other things you mention. Joe's directly said or implied several understandable reasons for why he's being distant, and even if Alden doesn't like them, he heard them. (It draws attention and looks inappropriate for me to be hanging out with you when I'm in trouble for using you, and also, you are playing around with Esh-erdi and Alis-art'h. I'm no longer in a position to take advantage of and develop the neat Avowed with the 300 skill, and I probably never will be. Forget that I taught you some interesting things and changed your life. Go away! Stop chasing me! Stop, I said!) *** I actually don't think this chapter should hit Joe's character much harder for people than he was already hit by Alden's guesses, unless they were thinking Alden was wrong about the "big enough to pick his own berries" thing. The biggest hit would probably be the revelation that he destroyed chaos research for the purpose of increasing his worth as the sole holder of valuable info, and that shouldn't be a surprise. He literally sent Alden with a bomb to destroy some remaining crumbs of his research because he didn't want Yipalck to have any chance of using his good stuff, and we already knew that. And as for the assistants, even if one takes everything Stuart said as plain, unmistaken truth, I don't think this chapter should have the effect of making the assistants look like brainless fanatics. Their extreme loyalty to Joe *is* already canon. Forty other people picked Yipalck under whatever degree of pressure there was, and Alden knew that. The ones he saved were the holdouts who were willing to tell a powerful corporation and a bunch of Avowed (who might or might not have been sent specifically for intimidation purposes for all we know), to shove off because Worli Ro-den was their guy. And the way Joe earns that loyalty is also canon. Joe lets them be very involved in research that would usually only be done by wizards because Joe prefers them to wizard partners. We also find out in this chapter, if Stu is correct, that when Joe gets pressured by the Triplanetary government, he responds by throwing more power and responsibility the assistants' way. The reasoning for that remains unexplored, but the government telling Joe to let the assistants share intel with them and Yipalck and Joe saying, "What if I let them tell anyone whatever the hell they want, actually?" is a pretty huge baton pass, isn't it? If your boss is the kind of guy who gives you more leverage over the corporation you don't like when trouble comes for you all in your happy lab castle where you do at least a few things of questionable legality together, then taking some risks and trying to get off Thegund in the way that gives that boss some of his own leverage back...

Colton

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to assert with the civilians situation. The company basically has a bunch of ppl who know how to make demons all of a sudden. Presumably there's contracts when you're a wizard or avow not to do heinous chaos stuff with your magic, but the civilians most likely aren't beholden to that contract. Hence why chaos research is only done by wizards. Removing the secrecy contract sounds so unbelievable that even Stu comments, "Can you believe it". Like they weren't even suppose to know, now they can even tell other people? It's a tough call but even the corporation most likely had to ethically keep them stranded there till something happened. To my understanding, Alden shouldn't even have gotten a single person off that moon without a contract forbidding them to explain how to make artificial demons. Pandoras box

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Great timeline @Joseph, and thank you @Sleyca! Sleyca's was the classical non-spoilery post, so let me add speculations on everyone's motivation: 1. Why Alden was the chosen option: * Alden could smuggle out things (research prototypes? Joe had a full cabinet of things at Matadero). Also, Joe recognisig Alden's skill hints at extensive research for suitable Awoved preservation skills since even knights were not sufficiently aware of BoAB ** Alden was idealistic enough to save lives without asking inconvenient questions 2. Joe's history on Thegund: We know this is his home world and he was born to the non-wizard class. Then-arr was his friend (or more). Wild speculation: Thegund had more than one chaos incident during their lifetime, and the future Primary met Joe (and maybe Worli) during one of them. Worli's death circumstances could be part of the reason for their uneasy relationship, and also one of the reasons why Jennet-art'h monitors and possibly supports Joe's research. This gives the group of Joe, Thenn and maybe a few close non-wizard friends that became lab assistants a very personal and tangible reason to enter the political power plays. And once there, playing dirty is a must. Internal cohesion also explains their loyalty (they went so far as to rig the lab). [Edit: Trusting his friends also explains why he felt removing their contracts was a good move since they would not go out and build a demon in a garage.] 3. Casting out Alden is indeed mutual protection. Both egoistic (to get away from his failure, emotionally also from the death of friends), and definitely also to get Alden (and Kibby) away from any political backlash. So in my view Joe is a deliciously ambiguous character, egoistic and street smart but also gutsy and caring for his gang (sharing information to an unusual extent, looking out to saving them, Kibby got training and his sincere best advise). Not even necessarily a villain if wizards that originated from the lower class, no matter how talented, meet a lot of obstacles from [[ stingy ]] committees and must put in so much more effort for each achievement. Also, we got a foreshadowing about the factions at play: Trash-nor was adamant at recruiting Joe for something but was rejected. Maybe the nor family is a Yipalck stakeholder and still hopes to get to his research, finding him even on Earth. So even after all hits, Joe is an important player in chaos research. Which makes his reappearance an interesting thing to wait for.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

DurnMary Davis was fretting over her chemistry homework. Why would a student of social sciences even need to learn chemistry? She was not one of these genius Awoved kids that routinely memorised the half-life of actinium. Her thoughts drifted to *CNHearts, Galaxy version*. Introducing Quinyet and the other Artonans in the Herdcreatures arc was such a success! But facts to write it are even harder to come by than Anesidora news. Luckily, in the Fulcreon account of someone going by the name of Sleyca, she literally struck gold. Sleyca discussed at length the Bold General and the way mighty wizards see him. A real eye-opener. Apparently she missed the key romantic hero from Artona, Stu-art'h! Full of new energy, DurnMary registered to Sleyca's Fulcreon account and started perusing the comments section. She needed to devise the appropriate wording of posts that would get responses from the horse's mouth. Who is Stu-art'h? What mysteries does he share with Alden Thorn?

denatured

The assistants were impressed to be handed unprecedented leverage and power, but if it's a lever you're going to need a fulcrum mounted on solid ground. Joe's a wizard moving in elite circles. His assistants don't even have the vote. What kind of ground were they standing on? And what was the corp doing to undermine it? The way I'm seeing Joe's actions, handing them a lever wasn't a passing of power. It was an abdication of it. The power diminished the moment it left Joe's hands.

puppy0cam

Today is a day of chapter predictions! Tomorrow, however, is the day of Chapter!

denatured

Delicious meat petal is consumed. Conversation ensues. Esvulgivnas is... Conversation is interrupted by the Beast in the Flock.

puppy0cam

Stuart slips on a banana peel Alden sleeps in and is late to school Alden forgets to put on his school uniform and gets in trouble Alden gets a message from Alis-art'h Ro-den loosens up the restrictions of Alden's secrecy contract to exempt the denizens of the rapport Better Alden wrecks Alden's suitcase right before he's due to leave

Sindri

Kibby's sister died. Because their parents refused to agree to keep confidential information confidential. Unless it was in exchange for their Wizard getting a slightly shinier hat.

JJ Hunter

Esh-erdi snake chat More questions 'As A Human' Lute shadows Alden

JJ Hunter

Artonan Gossip Class back with Lute in person More cause for swearing

Anthony Lutz

In chapter 49, Kibby shows Alden a video of one of the grasshoppers demonising within a controlled environment. Its possible that thats all they were doing, just triggering the corruption of the wildlife. Which also raises some concerns about ro-den keeping some in his room at Matadero.

Heather White

I feel like I’ve been right there on the emotional journey with Alden. In that moment when he & Kibby were setting off the bomb, it felt so righteous. I was absolutely cheering them on as they stuck it to the evil corporation… Now, with this reframing of the situation, the joy of that bomb blast has been betrayed. Suddenly their decision to blow up the lab lacks a (purely) evil corporation, and without that enemy, Alden & Kibby’s bombing has lost any semblance of moral high ground. Now them blowing up the lab has become them being duped into a criminal act, one that may have set back chaos research. Joe’s selfish betrayals have an impressive, painful number of layers.

TaborlintheGreat

They bombed the entire lab, because they had to try sending a signal that they were there to the rescue party. In that case, a very big signal noticeable by anyone, one that would make the rescue party who might possibly think there are no survivors take action regardless. Not just because they wanted the lab destroyed to teach Yipack a lesson.

jg

I hope not I got fired for comparing sleycas promises ( Fulfilled! ) to another authors pisspoor excuses for no work.

jg

Kwoo Pak will help us understand. It is a caste thing and an alien thing . Remember other wizards suck to Joe. Little pukes. Naughty wizard to mother, And to Earth Contract, a blatant threat. Maybe. Poor little mote! I think their society has hidden horrors behind <<. Proper Discretion >>

puppy0cam

na I'd say they are still just as evil. it's just there's more baddies in the picture than we previously believed.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

All the discussions about bad people and villains kind of remind me of the hero vs. villain mentality in Sleyca's fictional world. To me, there are no simple baddies here, Sleyca herself mentions it in this very discussion. In this, Super Supportive is like A song of ice and fire - once you know their motivations, no one is truly good or entirely evil. The best kind of writing!

Anthony Lutz

I've been re-reading Thegund, Alden was only supposed to bomb 2? specific areas of the lab to prevent Yipalck from getting it after everyone left. the lab itself was supposed to be left intact. if this was the only bombing that occurred there would be a lot less moral high ground. However, Plan 2 was to blow it up as a signal flare to the wizards clearing the corruption zone too slowly to make it to them. It was Kibby that made the bomb as big/destructive as it was, “Maybe I should not have asked you to add the Literan generators to the main lab yesterday. I felt very angry, though,” Kibby said. From her perspective, Yipalck needs a lot of blame for them being stranded, the bombing was a final F U to the people who left her family and fellow scientists in danger. She was not conflicted about this choice.

JJ Hunter

Earth controversial? this hot potato simmers with the meat-petal

Aspiring Moth

jeffy streams the grilling of the meatpetal along with Alden, Stuart, and his grandpa. he comments that it's so much warmer on artona 1 than back home in saskechawen, canada

FeathersFavoriteNYC

When reading @Joseph's timeline, a question crops up in my mind: When exactly did Joe remove the contracts? If he went back to the Artonas to offend senators, it makes sense that the retaliation was swift and merciless and he had no lab to return to. So either he activated some magical gadget he left at the lab as assurance, or the contracts were broken before he went to make trouble. In the first case: what kind of powerful magic works across dimensions? Or was there some enchantment that could be activated by non-wizards?

Aspiring Moth

contract magic works across dimensions. earth is in a different dimension to artona 2 anyway, so if it didn't, Alden wouldn't have any triangle of secrecy limitations on earth. and Joe can unilaterally end the contracts because he's the one who powered the contract. in theory, Joe could cancel Alden's contract at any time, even from a chaos filled dimension on the opposite end of reality to earth

Parry Henis

Do we have it confirmed that he would for sure have to? I thaught it was just a possibility Alden didn't want to risk. Hence trying to keep it secret from Stubeans.

BatheticBoy

"Maybe the nor family is a Yipalck stakeholder" I now totally believe this to be true. Great read @FeathersFavoriteNYC

FeathersFavoriteNYC

So you are saying that unilaterally breaking the contracts was possible for Joe anytime. I always imagined the contract magic as a local instance linked to the tattoo, like a magically powered enchantment. Once powered and accepted (i.e. internalised), it would bind each parties' actions without the need of any additional cross-dimensional work. So let's wait and see what is Sleyca's take on the matter.

Andrew Simpson

Eyyy the "fuck Joe" club is further vindicated. But actually, I had no idea how bad it was. What a sleezebag. This is the equivalent of a charismatic DOD nuclear researcher making a huge breakthrough, realizing how valuable it is and then attempting to ransome it to back to the organization that already paid for it in exchange for personal wealth. Already sleezy. But now imagine a nuclear disaster occurs at said lab, and instead of prioritizing the safety of the people he is responsible for, he doubles down and convinces his subordinates, all of whom have cult like loyalty and are only in danger because of him, not to evac as a bargaining chip (a decision which kills most of them), all while insinuating if they don't get what they want they are going to take their weapons research and give it to someone else. He's such a piece of shit. And even worse, he's like a mega-selfish, mega-capitalist, vaguely terrorist piece of shit. He's smart, and he's canny. He did the math of what his "bargaining chip" was worth, and that means he was ultimately fine with his entire team dying for a title. There's a version of this "academic withholds research" plot that involves him trying to prevent the research from spreading due to ethical concerns, or something, but Joe was insinuating that he would allow this *incredibly* dangerous research to fall into the wrong hands as part of the negotiations, and we know He's sold bioweapons to avowed before. He's actually a shitty arms dealer villain from a Saturday morning cartoon, and now my biggest critique of Artonan society is that instead of being in prison for the next 1/2 lifetime for effectively threatening to post chaos wmd blueprints online if he didn't get the clout he wanted, he got a cushy and well funded research position at a top university. He's such a piece of shit. Jesus.

Anon-Anon

You have to remember though, there is many sides to one story and the truth is oftentimes seperate. We can't take stus version as gospel the same way we can't take what joe said as the truth either. It's probably somewhere in between as other commenters have pointed out.

Aspiring Moth

I'm not saying it's actively powered. I'm saying the tattoos are linked, and the person that powered the formation placed the keystone and can remove it any time. it's probably different between two wizards, otherwise they would never be able to contract each other and have it stick. but with normal people and avowed, the wizard has all the power

Scarlett O'Hare

I understood the broken contracts to be between Joe and his staff at the labs. So breaking them would be Joe breaking his half of their contract making it void in its totality. From what we know contract magic works across dimensions as Alden is still under contract when he's on Earth before Joe arrives and the Velras family contract works when Aulia is on the tri-planets. Though I'm not even sure that we need to think cross dimensions in this case. I think all the planets of the tri-planets and the moon are in the same dimension around the same star. Aren't they?

Anon-Anon

He be doing what terrestrial fella did and copy pastes replies lmao

Anon-Anon

Life before death. Journey before destination... something something eats stormlight.

Anon-Anon

The ability to create an artificial demon doesn't seem... dangerous to you?

JennP

I don't know. What is the purpose? Can it be used for training? Is an artificial chaos demon easier to predict? The Artonans didn't seem to react with "oh, no, apocalypse beast!" They reacted with " everyone should be allowed to study this". Like it could be helpful. The story hasn't specified, so I'm waiting for more info. It's fun that everyone has theories that they're passionate about.

Josh Brooks

I think it’s important to consider Alden’s own priorities during the weighing of “Is Joe the worst and Stu 100% correct” vs. “Is Yiplack the worst and Joe/Researchers 100% correct.” The part that rankles Alden the most isn’t the difficulty of the choices made (imo). It seems to be that Alden prioritized saving the lives of the researchers, but both Joe and Yiplack didn’t care as much about doing that. Their priorities were focused on whatever squabble they were having, and the researchers were caught up with it. We now have evidence that Yiplack wasn’t the only selfish party at play, but that doesn’t erase the treatment of the researchers’ lives as pawns in a game with Joe. Joe thought it was a good gamble too perhaps. To use Alden instead of forfeiting what he thought he was owed. But he had more cards than most, and didn’t play any of them before using the most convenient solution: Alden.

Josh Brooks

SS has a writing style similar in quality to, like, Arcane (not as intense, obv, since it’s one pov and not a political thriller basically). To that degree, Joe has experienced some amount of consequences to his actions that probably will define his relationships going forward. Him “hitting every branch on the way down” hopefully will humble him. Or get him to see that his priorities are whacked. I imagine Alden showing up during the pinball conversation happened during a midst of 1000 other put downs by Artonan society, and Joe expected Alden to be furious with him. Or that he had switched sides to Joe’s enemies. To be hit with Alden’s gratitude that he could save lives as though that was the only reason Alden got involved probably did something. Not sure what. Joe has become super popular on Earth. Earth has a lot of people like Joe, who are going to view power like a game they can play and win (Aulia, etc.). I am going to hold out hope that some reckoning will come Alden’s way for knowing what Joe is like and living on Earth. It seems inevitable to me. Maybe it’ll be a chance to convince Joe to shut up and stop thinking with his authority.

Terrestrial_Biped

@Scarlett: Thegund and Artona I are in the same star system, but Artona III is in another dimension. We don't know about Artona II yet, but there's good reason to think it is at least in a different star system than I.

SkySeeker

Like the phrasing "thinking with his authority." I have seen way too many people in the real world (from all different demographic backgrounds) who like to do just that.

J Reynolds

Joe immigrates to Earth, starts teaching Artonan Conversation. On the negative side: massive waste of his potential. On the positive side: the students will learn to swear like sailors.

JennP

It's in another dimension?? I missed that piece of information

JennP

Casting out Alden is not for their mutual protection. Alden would face no political issues by being seen with Joe. It's Joe who would get more trouble.

Glitter Rabbit (C)

Yes, but it is not necessarily that simple. The chaos incident getting this bad was entirely unanticipated even for researchers that worked on a chaos related project for years. Moreover, they were researchers, sure but they were also from a lower social caste. They are servants to the wizards. We have absolutely not enough information about the social dynamics to fully understand the complexities of the hierarchies and the meaning of 'betraying' the one you work for. My opinion of Kibby's father is also going down a bit but we can probably think of the chaos incident as a natural disaster. We're there warning signs? Probably. Was this collapse to be anticipated? Apparently not. So, judging this situation is not as simple as 'the parents are too blame',. It is part of it, no doubt, but it is more complex.

JennP

There's something of a difference between risking yourself politically and risking the actual lives of people who are loyal to you, and a naive but sweet Earth kid

Sindri

I'm actually pretty okay with the adult researchers risking their lives on this. It seems kinda stupid to an outsider, but if they care enough to hold themselves hostage for the glory of their Lord, that's their business. But using the lives of their children as bargaining chips? There's no way to make that acceptable to me.

jg

We don't know enough about nonwizardy Artonans but to have the ruling class freak out about no secrecy contract with a wizard ( can you believe it???!!!! ) thereby Very Naughty Wizard questioning I feel one of the bases of their society, as Alden thought about Kibby changing class and the social dynamic expose by Kwee Pak

jg

Chapter night PST! ONLY up to 11 hours away! Really appreciate sleycas bound authority forcing her to let us know if a delay is on! Get rich off us, Sleyca!

Unknown

I was pretty tired when I wrote that. I woke up disagreeing with it. 😅

Scarlett O'Hare

One Discord search later... I guess the following is from one of Sleyca's posts somewhere: >> All of the Artonas have their own solar systems. Thegund is in the Artona I system, in orbit around a gas giant called Kimnor. >> III is in a different dimension from the other two in my notes, but it's not officially canon yet (unless I've accidentally already mentioned it in passing in the story...I didn't think I had, but since Mag1cM remembers it that way I might've). Not sure how old this comment is but I guess it means that it's likely, though maybe not confirmed yet and could still change, that III and Thegund are in different dimensions. I'm still going to say maybe not confirmed because I couldn't find it in the story where it says it's across dimensions. The nearest thing I could personally find was just confirmation in the introduction of the moon that it is in the same solar system as Artona I: >> “It’s one of the moons of Kimnor, in the same solar system as our mother planet. Half of it is in a magically stabilized zone. The other half is quite…wild. There are high levels of chaos, and the System there is a more primitive version that’s been poorly repaired a number of times.”

Emma Mass

Honestly I hope yenu peth finds out about Alden's wizardry and offers to help him train his authority in meaningful ways he can't learn through a single, beginner level book

Emma Mass

Sleyca has already mentioned that contracts have varying levels of security, reliability and absolution depending on the contract itself, the symbols used and the parties involved. So there are contracts that can be broken, even unilaterally and situations like Alden, where he used the triangle of absolution with a wizard leagues stronger than him. It's essentially for all intents and purposes, inviolable

MatrixM

I love this. We already have the idea of Bearer of All Burdens protecting the entrustor as it was stronger against Klein because Alden was protecting the entrustor, NOT the object. But I really like the idea of sensing dangers to protect himself to protect the entrustment. You're right, it makes his skill so much more versatile and combat applicable. Love it. Love the breakdown. I don't think he could beat an A rank's speed, not one who's trained and has sufficient processing. But a fresh one like Winston? Yeah, makes sense, cos Alden would act faster than processing and move faster than his body should (at a price)

MatrixM

@JennP If Alden was perceived as a typical Avowed slave, yes. If people thought he was actually willing to serve Joe (which would be the more likely case as Joe is smart enough not to force someone with a commendation from the Quarternary) then I think Alden would face political/social issues for being perceived as being on Joe's side. @Sleyca I agree that a lot of this was stuff we could reasonably assume. I already thought Joe was 'evil' since he indicated to Alden how many and how often he does immoral things for selfish ends. Hence this chapter made me feel better about Joe as his assistants had more choice than I thought. Or rather, JOE did not take as much from them as I thought, they still had agency and chose (risking) death (though the father is a good point that has been extensively discussed and speculated on already). Hence he's less evil than I assumed Thegund would indicate.

FeathersFavoriteNYC

The three friends are an interesting set-up: Alden the legal Awoved, Boe the illegal unique and Jeremy the "normal one" who will not get hurt if Alden teaches him magic because no binding. All interesting avenues for story development, set up so early.

Aspiring Moth

was Lexi the entruster? I wasn't sure on that point. he usually has Haoyu entrust him things, but Lexi did help him cut the webbing to make the shield they used. I was under the impression that it was because of his mindset of standing his ground and defending someone in general (since he was thinking about kibby). if Lexi was his entruster then it could have been because of that, with the rest just being noise

JJ Hunter

@JennP, given the degree of care both Zeridee and Esh-erdi were taking to ward Alden from Bash-nor's attention and access, and the persistence with which Bash-nor (and potentially other predatory types) have been crowding at Joe, I do think Joe may be actively looking to limit who of his more vulnerable or innocent former associates remains publicly associated with him, for their sakes as well as his. The way most wizards talk about assistants, there seems to be a strong cultural expectation of protection and care in return for loyalty and service. What assistants do reflect on their boss; how assistants are treated also reflects back on their boss. Even if Joe were wholly self-serving with no emotional attachment to Alden for Alden's own sake, there would be serious risks to Joe if Joe showed any sign of valuing Alden enough to paint Alden as a possible pawn (or target) for unwise, impulsive wizards like Bash-nor to try using Alden to pressure Joe. For all that Esh and Alis alike judge Joe for insufficient care for Alden's safety, Esh wasn't assigning Drusi-otta to follow Alden around to keep him safe from Joe. Bash-nor, on the other hand...

jg

Yes, when Joe's sincere best advice changed in the elevator we don't know if that voided the tattoo contract as esh-erdi wiped it straight after. But, assuming it didn't, that showed how dangerous Joe believed Aldens 300 secret was now. Do nothing! For decades!

Calibri

Joe got Wibby killed over a TITLE

Shmooggie

I don’t think the yovkew are native. If they aren’t native I think the planet they come from might hint at the origins of the “demon” at Chicago.

Shotcamelot

Mother indicated yovkew are native to Artona I. The only reasonable explanation I’ve come up with is that one of Gorgon’s predecessors encountered and whitelisted the swimmers at some point.

Shotcamelot

I’m also not impressed with the father ee who prioritized working for Ro-den over getting his kids out of chaos land

LobskiTheMagicLobster

The 'Demon' of Chicago was teaching the part of their magic that constitutes their gremlin to not react to certain lesser lifeforms so he might have just progressed enough that yovkew aren't a problem.

Shotcamelot

Huh. Title and Alden are quoting Hannah Elber from way back in the 90 Seconds chapter when she blurts out “Hit me with it” after Alden calls the second time. Probably not significant story-wise, but cool.

G

What was the other chapter where Stuart explains Joe stuff to Alden?

Chris Phoenix

The "He did it for a title" twist reminded me of something. It took me a long time to remember what. I thought for a while that it had been something foreshadowed in this story. (I've noticed, and appreciated, how Sleyca shows us the same thing from multiple angles in multiple contexts.) But it was real life. It was how Lukashenko wants a military title from Putin. I know there are a lot of differences between the two situations, but I thought it was interesting how believable - how resonant - Joe's actions and desires are, when compared with the real world.

Flynn Mandrake

Except Jeremy probably lacks the inherent ability to learn magic. If he did have mage potential, he'd likely have been chosen as an avowed himself

FeathersFavoriteNYC

Being chosen by the System has to do with high Chaos potential. If Jeremy's is low, he may have high authority and still not be chosen. We don't know his authority or lack thereof for now.

Luke Scheffe

But Alden didn't inherit his advanced gremlin. Alden's gremlin is the same as Gorgon received from his teacher.

Harmonica Man

Man, I liked Joe. I was really hoping he ended out having a good reason for all this. I guess he still could, if Stuart isn’t aware of something.